Make PfE pots less common

[Anonymous Bosch]

My suggestion is just that Protection from Alignment be set up to be less readily available, and unbrewable in the same way as shield and true strike potions.
 
Having recently played an eb0l wizard, I found that cheap and numerous PfE pots shifts the balance of power in PvP very firmly in the direction of max bab melee types.
Without mind affecting spells, there really isn't much in the old arsenal to give a good chance against a fighter class with decent hp.
I mean, warriors should be afraid of dark magic, right? :D
 
I'm aware that pots are easily dispelled, but for the sake of 40gp it is no trouble at all to chug as many as might be needed.
Certainly less trouble than using a valuable spell slot for dispels, or using a comparatively expensive dispel wand.
IMO, PfE should be mostly restricted to classes with the necessary casting skills or umd.
 
When considering this suggestion, bear in mind I'm now playing a non-caster. ;)

[TheImpossibleDream]

Dispel wands are your friend they will dispel pfe potions first with about a 90% accuracy rate, but I'm a bit bias.

While hasted you can cast dispel and hold before its even possible for a person to drink and regain their mind protection. Pfe is fine the way it is, many quests would need to be re-tuned if it were not as common as it is

Edit 2: Dispel cast by a caster rather than from an item is one of the most crippling spells you can cast on anybody, it will strip ~everything~ on a decent roll and a few things at worst.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I did mention wands in the opening post, you know. :P
It's only really useful as part of a gang of casters.  One to dispel, another to launch a mind-affecting spell before another cheap, available pot is chugged.

[MoonlitNight]

Eventhough i love the pots..i hear you.

[TheImpossibleDream]

You can very easily crush your opponent without hold person or mind spells, which are not SUPPOSED to be the be all and end all of pvp, mages are immense destroyers. Don't believe me? get hit with a few empowered fireballs, make your saving throw for half damage, if you survive, come back to me!

(note without making your save an empowered fireball hits for 40-80 damage on average, now imagine hasted and casting three of those from a distance before your opponent can see/get to you.

Also keep in mind there are many other ways to disable people that aren't mind effecting spells (gust of wind for example)

[Anonymous Bosch]

get hit with a few empowered fireballs

Sure, then a few firebrands and maybe a PW:K while they're at it. >_>

[lovethesuit]

Things are easy enough for team evil without nerfing PfE. Besides which, it is an important spell for a lot of quests and there's a reason why almost every casting class has it.

I find way more Protection from Good potions dropping that Protection from Evil.

[Luke Danger]

I find way more Protection from Good potions dropping that Protection from Evil.

Which are pretty much only useful to most who find them as a prevention of friendly fire with stuff like say, Color Spray.

[Egon the Monkey]

PfG pots are common too, it's the ones for Neutral alignments that are a bugger. That's only really an issue for some animals with Fear Howls though outside of PVP. The thing is, that for quests like Harpies where enemies dispel, PfEs are critical to not die horribly. they also make it possible if expensive to do quests (especially lowbie ones) without casters.

Now, I'll agree there's a bit of a balance issue for PVP when it can be trivial to escape powerful spells, especially as nowhere outside of EfU is HP supposed to be mind-affecting. However it's that or have Goblin Enchanters, Mist Ogre Elders etc be Death To All Parties.

If you want to slow someone up, use Slow (willsave, non mind-affecting), Negative Energy Burst or Ray of Enfeeblement (PCs run close to encumbrance usually) or Web. Although since unrestricted Web Immunity boots exist as basic quest loot, that's a dodgy spell. I've brought that up before since using them and the fairly common Web gear can get rather crazy good.

Cloud of Bewilderment isn't Mind-Affecting, although if it's a Fighter coming at you, they've got a good chance of saving with all the Poison save gear people generally carry.

I suppose the problem is that the stuff that's not mind affecting and CAN screw over a melee class also happens to be FORT saves. If I could make one change to arcane spells it would probably be making Ray of Enfeeblement a Will save like for Burst. Sure it's easily removable, but it's spammable and will usually encumber someone. Not a complete Screw You like paralysis, but nasty, and at the least burns a round on chugging a restore.

Oh and at TheImpossibleDream:
The vast majority of Fighters here have Evasion from rogue multiclass. It can be a bitch :P

[Relinquish]

It's possible to script PFA to give a +5 or 10 bonus vs mind spells instead of immunity, If such is desireable.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Fully agree with Egon on all counts here.
Slow is the only viable spell for whomping an hp beast.
 
moar wil svs pls.
 
Btw, my suggestion equally applies to PfG pots.
Any wizard with access to decent spells should inspire some fear in a fighter.

[Egon the Monkey]

Hmm...
Here's the thing. If PfX gets changed like that, everyone will be scared to do Harpies unless the DMs script up some Remove Confusion items.

I remember when for some reason PfX didn't work against Mummy Fear Auras and remove Fear pots or items were crucial for Jergals. The same would apply.

EDIT: Could Slow be scripted to Medium range? That might balance things out without huge PfX related tinkering, as that spell isn't removable, but it's not totally crippling either.

[Relinquish]

It'd make the quest more challenging, since everyones been crying about it being too easy somewhere around here.

[VanillaPudding]

No reason to nerf it. Thanks

[TheImpossibleDream]

Sure, then a few firebrands and maybe a PW:K while they're at it. >_>

Difference is there have been several pc's with access to empowered fireballs, where as none have had access to PW:Kill I used them as one example, as stated there are tons of spells you can use, I won't go into a "How to kill people as a wizard" rant, but there are so many pc's and have been so many pc's that do it so well regardless of consumables available to their opponents.