The Order faction discussion

[Random_White_Guy]

As Howland spoke of in the other thread, We understand there has been some issues with the DM factions of the server. As of late one of our top priorities has been adjusting and seeing these problems rectified.

Again, THIS IS NOT IC KNOWLEDGE YET this is simply a brief bit of the information we've compiled so far to pass on to you guys to have a rough idea of where the factions should be and where they will be going in the immediate future.

This is a forum for discussion and input and we're eager to see what you have to say.

The Numinous Order

Goodly crusaders with staunch belief in loyalty and civilization. The order is an organization with a thick history of secrets and rumors upon the island of Ymph. Prominently known for involvement in the Red Elient conflict.

- Leadership: Lord Commander Dame Kassarack (an unquestioned career soldier thrust upon a position of leadership she reluctantly accepts as duty), Lord Commander De Velen (currently indisposed), Azthralus the Devout (a devout Priest preserving and advancing the Cult of the Three).
- Advantages: Very popular amongst the commoners/citizenry, mysterious power base.
- Disadvantages: Poor standing in the upper echelons of society (Patrician and Politics), idealistic conflict amongst the ranks.

Proposed Ranking Structure:

• Novitiate (no app required, can be granted by any PC, minor gear provided)
• Footman: Initial induction, Grunt soldier of the Order
• Knight: Established Veteran of the Order, Privy to more Faction/Island lore, Open-access to apply for the Knight PrC.
• Lord Commander: Overseer of activities within the Colony.

"The Cult of the Three"- Non-Application PC Faction attached to the Order.

Devout holy men and laymen alike spreading the word and glory of the three in all pursuits. Members of this organization are not required to serve as soldiers the Order but will participate with them in many endeavors, particularly the acquisition and study of Arcane and Divine artifacts in the name of the Three.

Many novitiates would likely find this area a proving ground to become a proper soldier

So what players do in the faction:

- Recruit and make sure DMs aren't slacking with faction inductions
- Patrol the Wilds for threats of Evil creatures and otherwise
- Spread the glory of the Three in all endeavors be it combat or simple prayer
- Pursue artifacts of a magical and powerful nature for destruction or use against foes
- Go on quests "in the name of The Three" to purge the Foes of the common man and the Order
- Strive to better the well being of the common man, placing their needs over the Politicians and Nobility
- Protect and defend the Cult of the Three in various endeavors
- DM plottage...
- PC Plots of your own making! We are interested in faction PCs spear-heading endeavors and plots.

This is just a brief view at what we'd like the faction to be and what we are actively turning it into. Hopefully it will spark some curiosity and interest. Again however input is welcomed.

[Caddies]

Once again, I think these insights are an excellent way to get players informed so they can make more appropriate PCs to match the faction! I'd love to see one for the Stygians and maybe even the Rubies.

More on topic, maybe a little more basic info on what differentiates the Cult of the Three and ordinary Tyrrans/Tormtars/Ilmateri would be sweet, for reasons mentioned above. Disregard if that'd be too spoilerific! Also, a personal question- *Spoiler edit!*

[Secutor]

A certain spoiler has been removed from the above two posts! :O

[Random_White_Guy]

More on topic, maybe a little more basic info on what differentiates the Cult of the Three and ordinary Tyrrans/Tormtars/Ilmateri would be sweet, for reasons mentioned above.

Without giving away too much detail, the Order has their own specific interpretation of the Three. The Cult's duty would be to spread word of these differences, promote religious conflict with other factions as well as other PCs of the traditional "Three", and pursue magical/holy artifacts with/For the Order.

A supplementary group. This would be the best place to find a wizard, rogue, or non-soldierly class. As well the Cult of Three will serve as a training ground for Order PCs. Novitiates will be assigned to assist them in various endeavors.

As these changes begin to be implemented ICly hopefully things will become more clear. As said this is mostly just a brief OOC rundown.

At present the Stygians have been performing rather well and as we invisioned them so I'm not 100% sure if a similar rundown will be offered though it may be possible.

[Ebok]

Honestly some information on the deity collection is necessary.

Kinda like, why do they call it the Three? Rather then name the deity within them that they serve. (its simple yes, but if you're playing a follower, it mean you can have an active role in the faith without having come into the game needed converted first)

What is the common reaction amongst followers of the three around followers of the triad. Both are said to exist in the common classes--but the only time I personally saw the commoners say one thing about the order was during those big anti-Order rallies hosted by the Witnesses. Seemed to kinda lean towards the hate side during those particular events. Anyway this seems like something one could observe merely by looking at the npcs are that aren't around.

Yeah, I'm not around anymore. Yes I played in this faction for a week and know a huge chunk of the information I have in the first paragraph. But I was bored and skimming sites, so I stopped in. And those were the primary questions I had while playing the first few days in the order.

I'm just saying that Allot of my initial thoughts were quite wrong. And that was from a character who had already gotton into the faction. O.o

Using the term Cult seems to be self depreciating anyway. Cult is what you call the fanatics. Its not what the fanatics call themselves. Laymen of the Church of the Three. I mean, honestly, we're looking at a Catholic-ish order of knights. And I think religion is over played in their identity, and underplayed in the public.  (the second being something that's really hard to do if you as a player are confused about something)

[DangerousDan]

Information about the pantheon is a nessecity. I was going to do an OOC post with lovely icons, but Kiaring droopt me upon that, and it died. Should definate write one, however!

[Random_White_Guy]

I -knew- I forgot something. I had intended to post these in the OP but it was late and I was far too tired to do all the thinking and tweaking to write up all this awesome information.

The Three:
Men, or ‘The Children’ are the chosen sons of Tyr, the Unbroken. They stand above all other beings of the Prime Material in the eyes and hearts of the Three. The mortal cycle of Man is mirrored in the divine trinity, The Three. The Risen represents man in his youth: tenacious, quick to anger and joyful in battle. The Dead, Illmater, represents the inevitable end that man must face and come to terms with. And finally, the Unbroken represents the eternal soul of man, and the paradise that awaits him in the divine afterlife.

The Unbroken God (TYR):
Depicted enshrouded in Mist.

Dogma: Strive to be just in life, so that when you arise unto the celestial realms, you can be judged to have given your life meaning. Never strike a foe in anger in the stead of what is just. Forever strive to protect The Children, and drive back the foes of the Three.

Contrary to the image of Tyr as the "Maimed" god, Tyr in the Order represents the everlasting Spirit of man and their Father-like protector. Those who serve dutifully and with justice in their hearts will find themselves blessed in the afterlife. A Soldier who tempers his soul with the idea of law, wisdom, and justice would find his place amongst their followers. Not just combating evil for the sake of evil but understanding why and what it is 'The Children' (mankind) fight for.

The Risen God (TORM):
Depicted arising from the waters.

Dogma: March joyously into battle, and give your foes no quarter upon the field. Never break an oath once given, and protect thy Lords, be they mortal or divine. Celebrate births and life, for it is too often snuffed out before it may flourish. Give the bodies of the fallen to the Lake of Steam.

The Risen represents man in his youth: tenacious, quick to anger and joyful in battle. Unlike Torm, The Risen is a deity more so of crusader for the cause of purging evils of the island through battle and combat rather than hunting traitors and other conflicts against tyrrany. Those who are quick to drive a stake into the heart of the wicked, fend off attacks from all sides, and revel in general combat find themselves within the graces of the Risen. A battle hardened warrior who is passionate about the Crusade to purge the land of evil would find presence at Risen's side.

The Dead God (ILMATER):
Depicted in the throes of death.

Dogma: Embrace suffering as it brings you closer to the death which comes, and thus drives away your fear. Do not deny others suffering for fear of them growing soft and coddled, but do not stand by whilst others suffer unduly. Death is a happiness, for the dead are delivered into the arms of the Unbroken.

The Dead represents the wisdom that comes with Age. When a man has seen much, done much, and partook in muchm he understands full well that death is not to be feared, but enjoyed, for it brings you closer to the Unbroken. While they do not actively seek death in such suicidal means, the followers of the Dead view life as a Journey. If a soldiers walks well with the Three in the journey of life, though he will face ample hardships, he can die a happy and fulfilled life.

The Three and One are worshiped not as individual deities amongst the Order though there are those who would find their place under a particular patron. A Tyrran may give utmost praise to the Unbroken, but understand full well that "The Three" as a whole are parts of the natural cycle of life and that all should be treated with the same reverence as he would his patron.

Think of it instead as its own private Pantheon. The Three are viewed as the natural cycle of life. A soldier may devote his life to the cause of the Risen, but as he ages he may still well give higher reverence to the Unbroken and Dead will hold most of his attention as his journey is closer to ending.

Its a little complicated which is why I think the reason it was withheld, but with the new faction changes coming we decided it was time to let these things spread about the playerbase more.

You can have a patron of any of these faiths, or be converted ICly which is a fun process we hope to have the Cult of the Three partake in amongst the community. Simply because one of them is your patron however does not mean you will not serve, offer prayer to, and offer faith to the others. The Three and One are a large part of the Order's crusade, and describe many facets of the conflicts they embark upon.

This has taken some time to draft, so Hopefully it sparks interest and you guys can put it to use.

[Random_White_Guy]

The Dreamer, The One,

Dogma: Some would say a god of eldritch prophecy, others would say he represents an obscure ritualistic deity from a time long past, slumbering.

Rumors say that the worship of the Dreamer is less widespread amongst the Order, but his presence plays a shrouded role amongst the Order's crusade. "The Three and One" bring forth notions that while the three lead the day to day and regular lives of the Order and its crusaders, The One seeks beyond.

[derfo]

From my perspective, the Order just seems like it's too overtly exclusive to make not only a faction that is one detailed group of gods, amplified in that it is in a really specificly heretical way that players need to seem to tailor their character to fit into.

I also always felt from what I know of lore and such from my time on EFU, that a patron deity played an extremely significant role in the characterization of almost everyone. In that respect, it seems to detract from the entirety of the premise, members of the faction sort of more prone to be less diverse.

I think that some other concrete, obviously important goals, and being more inclusive of other faiths (while still focusing on the foundry that is the Three, of course) would be beneficial in keeping things involving and interesting. I'd believe it keeping with the whole zealous theme, while sparking some other alluring stuff.

Similarly, if I might be so nostalgic, while I realize that these factions are not desired to be rehashed versions of those forgotten, I think some of those aforementioned things were major strengths that made the Society of the Ordered Mind involving and interesting for me.

It's definitely an awesome idea all in all, yet just doesn't seem like something that really strikes me as a major DM faction. However, I would like to echo that this is invariably from my lowly derflaro viewpoint, and I am sure someone could probably prove me wrong in delight with a uniquely crafted concept or spoilerish secrets about the faction that most, if not all have yet to discover!

[Random_White_Guy]

Some good points, Derf.

The issue of other faiths is one that is one of the biggest obstacles we've been trying to overcome regarding the faction.

The issues of "Goals" is one that I honestly think is best left in the hands of the PCs personally.

When crafting the cheat sheet I left it purposely vague to some extent. I believe if things are too rigorously scripted out, characters fall into the same vein.

DM Factions are often changing and evolving as PCs partake in events and plots, often against other DM factions but at times against other PCs. Too rigorously thought out goals leaves PCs thinking that is "Exactly what the DMs are looking for", and limits PC range. As we are already doing that somewhat with Faith, doing that on two fronts would severely limit concepts  that PCs would pursue in my mind.

Proactive PCs with their own plots and ideas that they want to pursue, is exactly how DM plots flourish. They are still offered roles in larger DM plots, but in most day-to-day activities that is sincerely up to the PCs.

[Gippy]

Certainly DM plots could invigorate this faction and make it desirable, but I do see some problems with the structuring which will always hinder it.

It is as Derflaro articulated, a very exclusive faction. You are supposed to not only follow just three gods but you must embrace a heretical fringe belief of those three gods. Furthermore the faction emphasizes a martial element to it, which again excludes even more PCs. When you've narrowed the door so much, to so many concepts, it suddenly becomes very hard to relate with the Order. I played three different Seekers on my time on EFU because the faction offered a great degree of diversity, perhaps the greatest on EFU, and that was the reason for its successes.

In some ways it is hard not to bring up the Society comparison with the Order. The Society was very open to a wide degree of PCs. Some of its PCs that were most successful such as Drilacko Kanaut were certainly not the 'typical' Society PC. If the Order is going to be successful then it will have to find a way in which it can interact with, influence, and recruit a wider range of PCs. I am convinced the total lack of standards was why Montezzi was successful, and something similar has to be applied to the Order.

The faction history and story are rich, but its goals, even now are still shrouded in mystery. While it may have rapport with the poor, rarely do I see that having much of an affect on the politics of the Ziggurat, which are dominated by an elite class. They lack the ability to arrest and enforce justice, which is fine, as there's already a surplus of law enforcement factions. Yet without this they seem less tied into the important aspects of running the colony then either the Stygians or the Sharboneth.

[Random_White_Guy]

The martial/faith issue is hindering, Yes.

To counter the point though I would suggest the Spellguards. They were a predominately exclusive faction, but were able to bring about a fair deal of concepts and intrigue.

While I understand the heretical faiths are a bit of a strech, I believe that with proper motivation a PC could come up with a dozen concepts off hand how they could interact and deal with the order, most of which on the DM Faction level with proper application. Politicians, Scouts, Warriors, Quartermasters, Priests, Scholars, etc.

On the whole I believe it comes down to simply PC interest. I'm doing what I can to cultivate it by releasing more information, Working more quests, and taking a more hands on approach to the faction while these changes are taking place.

Anything you guys feel would "Spark your interest" in the faction, feel free to relay it to me. I've got a fairly large list of things I want to change about the faction to make it more appealing, but there's always room for more.

[Sphagnum]

While I agree that the faction is politically weak, this is certainly something that can be corrected IG. The good and bad sides of this can be discussed IG and OOCly, as it often was with the Society of the Ordered Mind which was politically neutral all through its existence and never really managed to influence the political arena much. I see it as an IG obstacle rather than an OOC one and could readily be worked on with more political oriented concepts.
 

That being said, I personally feel that one of the Order’s main obstacle is finding its “niche”, as it now seems to be stuck somewhere between obscure religious faction, with a somewhat hidden agenda, and a military meant to protect the Colony but does not seem to have the authority to do so. Again this can be contributed to IG factors, but I see how this can make the “door way”, seem rather narrow. On the other hand, the faction does have “inter-faction conflict” that opens up the possibility for a wide-range of concepts, none which need to be particularly military inclined. I fear my explanation is limited due to fear of “spoilers”, but I can promise that while it may seem somewhat similar on the surface, the Order is dynamic and filled with opposing ideas and ideologies. The PCs does not need to be especially religious or devote, though the religious factor is certainly meant to tailor the Order towards the “Crusade” “Knights Templar”-aspects.

Just my 2 cents.

[DangerousDan]

So, the Order.

This has always been a difficult faction for me. How I envisaged them at launch has never been fully realised ingame, for a number of reasons- partly because of my own ennui, partly because I was perhaps over ambitious or showed a lack of forsight. The core issue is really that they've been stuck in limbo since the end of Red Eleint- neither here nor there, perhaps because of the fact our factions are simply too clogged. At any rate, I'll begin with how I imagined them.

The Order were the Knights Templar, mixed with a healthy dose of Masonry. Crusaders, taking prisoners into their fortresses and dealing with them as they saw fit. Grating against the government, yet nessecary to its continuing existence. Religiously and politically serpentine, and with aims that are uncertain- yet grounded in the everyday protection of the Colony. In short, something close to a LG Spellguard with swords.

Part of the difficulty is the military/police distinction that we have going on with the Stygians and House Sharboneth. Whilst their aims are different, practical/proactive PCs of the House aren't going to stand aside if a military threat becomes evident to the Colony, despite the military role of the Armada presence, which leads to messy overlap that doesn't nessecarily lead to interesting conflict. Coupled with that, this relationship leaves precious little room for a third, 'specialist' faction - the Order.

Gippy's point about religion I thought was fairly on the money. The Order's pantheon really represents my own dislike of the way the FR Religion works. It might be an idea to think of way to make the faction more inclusive, as I did find the Seekers example telling of how a faction could be both successful and inclusive- that said, the SG went strong for two years and were restricted to a singular class. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.

At the end of the day, I personally feel some jiggling might be in order with our factions- possibly with having the Sharboneth swallowed by the Stygians, or whatever. At any rate, I think some work needs to be done. Thoughts?

[Random_White_Guy]

The Big S I don't think will go anywhere.

As another note, In light of the "There are restricting concepts", I've drafted a list of concepts that I could see easily being approved in the Order.

Granted all Footmen of the order are expected to be able to take up arms and deal with crusades, these are possible "Twists" you can put on that notion.

Cartographer
Politician
Quartermaster
Scholar
Priest
Chef
Counter-Espionage
Alchemist
Seige expert
Demolitions Expert
Tactician
Field Medic
Blacksmith

Just a short list, but any of these I could see played by a "Combat Class" effectively.

While restricting, I think if you begin looking at the Order from a concept standpoint, not a Class standpoint, I honestly believe there is a plethora of military/crusading concepts you can draft using the class limitations and faith based limitations.