Animal Empathy

[scribjellydonut]

I started this thread since the one in the suggestion forum was closed and I hate when my threads are closed before I can give any sort of intelligible response. In this case Scotty has said it would not be possible to impliment, but since I'd like to continue the discussion I decided to continue it here.
 

Even if it were possible, please explain to me why a WILD BEAST your pc encounted 30 seconds ago is going to stick with you and die for you for 24 hours.
 
AE is having a connection and such with animals, it's not like HEY ANIMAL WE'RE BFFS NOW YOU DON'T GET A CHOICE BECAUSE MY AE SCORE IS ROCKIN'.
 
Coaxing it to hunt with you or protect you is one thing, but it is still a WILD ANIMAL. If you think you can try to explain how one glance (Which is almost never accompanied by an emote or anything by most PCs I see AE'ing) can suddenly domesticate a hungry, wild beast into wanting to spoon with you when you cuddle to sleep, please enlighten me.
 
[/Endrant]

I don't think there is anything in a modern world comparable with animal empathy. Sure there are those that are better qualified to handle animals, but realistically there is no one who can walk into a forest, find a grizzly bear, and befriend it for ANY amount of turns/level - this just doesn't happen. What D&D implies by this skill is that someone who spends most of their life in the wilds has a natural affinity for animals. Whether this is true or not is difficult to tell in our modern world.
 
All this aside, whether you like it or not, D&D makes the assumption that a ranger or druid can calm an animal to the point that the animal is friendly towards the PC and will follow him/her into battle - this is not much different from the assumption of magic, polytheism, or a world named Toril orbited by a moon named Selune - save it AE is a little less outlandish. So explain to me logically how does it makes sense that the animal you calmed 30 minutes ago and who has fought at your side, whom you RP giving food, petting, and possibly nurturing, suddenly and without warning decides: "Hmm, this guy's ass looks tasty, let me try and take a bite of it."
 
What you really seem concerned with here, and don't take this personally, is the mechanical balance of the game. Whether my ranger with a calmed jungle panther can put up a fight against your fighter/barbarian with twice his HP, nearly twice his AB, and a greater deal of AC that comes complete with a greatsword, weapon specialization, weapon focus(greatsword), barbarian rage, knockdown, and a myriad of other combat feats I don't care to list off the top of my head.
 
Really it boils down to 'does it even matter' because not many people seem to play an evil ranger/druid that is going to waylay you the moment you step into the woods anyways. On top of that, when they are in the wilds, rangers and druids are SUPPOSED to have a great natural advantage there. One of such advantages is that the animals can understand the ranger/druid's motives and would fight alongside them to see their homelands protected. Let's not forget, the ranger/druid is on the side of the animals, and the animals have little allies in the human world as it is. Plus, it's not as if rangers or druids can bring animal companions or dominated animals into the ziggurat. And let's face it, they're mechanically stunted as it is - most of us that play rangers(or druids) don't do so mainly for PvP.
 
Not even to mention the difficulty of AEing some of these beasts to begin with. An animal with a DC of 27 and you having an AE skill of 10... I mean without a natural 20 it's dangerous to even try to AE it anyways. The only ones I can seem to get natural 20s on are boars, who don't usually attack on sight.
 
To finish this off and to clarify my post, when I made my suggestion it was geared more toward RP than to make the ranger into an animal-army toting griefing PC. I thought it odd that an animal you befriended and who is following you would suddenly decide it wants to kill you. It doesn't make sense, plus it's mechanically annoying even if the animal was friendly to begin with to constantly re-AE it every few minutes.

[Jayde Moon]

Looking at your post in the suggestions thread, it looks like 4 people kind of agreed with you enough to think that an automatic reroll at least should happen and 2 people did not agree with you at all, one person vehemently, who was told to tone it down by the presiding DM.

The thread did get closed with an intelligible response:

"Not possible to script."

-----

However, to address your point of animals that have been your bud suddenly turning on you, this is something that is reported to happen all the time in the 'real world'.

Domesticated animals suddenly attacking owners is not unheard of, and when someone trains an animal not traditionally considered domesticated, there are many reports of it suddenly 'turning'.  Because it's a wild animal.

There's that show, "When Animals attack", the cute little trained bear on the news show that suddenly mauled the reporter.  Trained show animals 'going on a rampage', etc.  Maybe all very true, some of it maybe simply urban legend.

Thing is, just as you seem to feel that an animal that is becalmed and 'made into your friend' should be your bosom buddy for at least 24 hours (but of course, doesn't your argument continue after 24 hours?  If he's been your friend that long, why would he suddenly turn on hour 25?  Why would he suddenly not be your animal buddy after any length of time), there are a lot of people who may think that a wild animal is just that, a wild animal, and that while such an animal may be calmed for a time and made to understand simple instruction from those who are super 'in touch' with nature... they are still wild animals and not even trained ones at that. [/runonsentence]

In a fantasy setting like this, neither argument above is a 'correct' one, and those responsible for putting the server together can listen to two or three camps go back and forth on it til the cows come home.  What ends up being important are: Will it add fun, is it balanced, is it possible?

Lengthen or otherwise change AE to last longer or allow rerolls.

Will it add fun? For some, yes, for others, no.
Is it balanced? Probably not (NWN balance ninjas have a better answer)
Is it possible? No.

Looks like a done deal.

[Drakill Tannan]

If it's not scriptable there is not much point in arguing about it really. Although i would like to see it IG.