Beastmen Bandit Concept

[Belgaroth]

"Stealing isn't necessarily evil"
 
If someone didn't have any other means to survive, no. A street urchin who steals bread isn't evil. Bandits who hurt and rob non-evil people are necessarily evil.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Nonsense. Worrying about who is or isn't evil is something for good folks to worry about.  
Bandits who rob travellers, applying beatings to folks that refuse to hand over their due, aren't strictly evil.
Evil requires a certain amount of malevolence or a very low regard for the lives of others.
Smacking people on the back of the head for their gold just doesn't cut it.

[N/A]

"Stealing isn't necessarily evil"
 
If someone didn't have any other means to survive, no. A street urchin who steals bread isn't evil. Bandits who hurt and rob non-evil people are necessarily evil.

I believe they would be chaotic, not evil.

This sounds like an interesting concept!

[Belgaroth]

Nonsense. Worrying about who is or isn't evil is something for good folks to worry about.

Now that is nonsense. :confused:
 

Bandits who rob travellers, applying beatings to folks that refuse to hand over their due, aren't strictly evil.

No, they are strictly good. Hells, thanks to them their victims dont have to carry so much weight. :-D
 

Evil requires a certain amount of malevolence or a very low regard for the lives of others.

So I guess if someone enters your house, beats you to near death, and robs everything from you, he is not malevolent and hold your life in high esteem. :-D

[Belgaroth]

I believe they would be chaotic, not evil.  

Chaotic (for example CN) means following one's own desires above anything else, refusal of rules, etc. It doesn't mean you will be robbing others anymore than if you were of another alignement, unless CE.

[SkillFocuspwn]

CE is actively performing evil, CN is actively working to benefit yourself. What we consider Evil and what is Evil alignment are different! Bandits can innately be CE or CN, depending on if they willing accept Priests of Cyric, torture people into finding out about hidden treasure, and burn the house after looting it, you're CE.

If you just hit people on the head and run with their purses, you're CN.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Belgaroth, if you aren't playing a paladin now, get on it immediately. :P

[Drakill Tannan]

Chaotic (for example CN) means following one's own desires above anything else, refusal of rules, etc. It doesn't mean you will be robbing others anymore than if you were of another alignement, unless CE.

Chaotic evil = Both

What you are describing is a man with no respect for law. He does what he must to get away with deeds, not because he wants to harm someone, he simply does not care about that man in particular and has no law to stop him.

Example: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then gets away. Aditionally the robber might kill the man if he considers it necesary for the city guard not to chase after him (no witnesses) But not because he felt like it.

Or

The rogue sees a man laying on the floor, drunk and incapable of fighting back, robs his purse, leave the drunk on the floor and slips into the night.

An evil robber not only robs because he obeys no law and cares not about the man he robs. But he also does it because he enjoys or desires the death/suffering of the man he robs, either if an specifical one, or not.

Example: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then beats the crap out of him, he hadn't even thought he had to get rid of the witnesses, he just felt like killing/harming the guy.

Or

The rogue sees a dunk on the floor, he slits his throat and then grabs it's purse. Then goes away.


That the society makes us thing whatever it says (laws) is the "good" thing, doesn't make it true. That is lawfull, not good.

[Drakill Tannan]

And yes, you would make an awsome paladin.

[Belgaroth]

Chaotic evil = Both
 
What you are describing is a man with no respect for law. He does what he must to get away with deeds, not because he wants to harm someone, he simply does not care about that man in particular and has no law to stop him.

Which is what evil is about. Chaotic Neutral is about following one's desires above anything else, as long as you're not harming anyone.
 
Good is helping others at your own expense.
 
Neutral is acting always in your own benefit, without harming anyone (hence the name: neutral)
 
Evil is acting for your own benefit by harming others.
 

The rogue sees a man laying on the floor, drunk and incapable of fighting back, robs his purse, leave the drunk on the floor and slips into the night.

That would still be a slightly evil act (specially if the man in question is poor), but not as much as hurting him first and then rob him.
 

Example: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then gets away. Aditionally the robber might kill the man if he considers it necesary for the city guard not to chase after him (no witnesses) But not because he felt like it.

Are you saying he would be CN if he killed the man out of necessity and not out of bloodlust?
 
I need to quote this I think:
 

Neutral evil is pure pragmatism without honor and without variationâ€"survival of the fittest.
 
A neutral evil character does whatever he can get away with. He is out for himself, pure and simple. He shows no remorse for those he kills, whether for profit, sport or convenience, and he has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make him any better or more noble. On the other hand, he does not have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.
 
Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.
 
Career criminals, particularly those who harm others for money, such as hitmen, are the most obvious example of neutral evil.

Which is more or less what you mistook with CN.

[Belgaroth]

Why do you not want goblins or kobolds? They are the easiest subrace to get approved, and they would make sense for this concept.

[SkillFocuspwn]

So, what is CN if not that? You seem to be saying that anything done that might minorly inconvinience another soul is evil, so CN would be... Never doing anything?

And, the fact of the matter is, there are CN bandits. CN bandits have been played properly and kept that alignment, and CN bandit NPCs have appeared in everything. Bandits can be Chaotic Neutral.

"A wandering rogue who lives both by work for hire and petty theft is an example of a chaotic neutral character."

[Belgaroth]

So, what is CN if not that? You seem to be saying that anything done that might minorly inconvinience another soul is evil, so CN would be... Never doing anything?

Never harming anyone, exactly. Read my previous post again. A CN char is restless, conflictive, unpredictable, but not evil. He might punch someone because he has pissed him off (that wouldn't be considered evil!), but he wouldn't sistematically beat and rob people.
 

And, the fact of the matter is, there are CN bandits. CN bandits have been played properly and kept that alignment, and CN bandit NPCs have appeared in everything. Bandits can be Chaotic Neutral.

You mean, like the npc bandits in NWN who are set automatically to hostile, out to kill you?
 

"A wandering rogue who lives both by work for hire and petty theft is an example of a chaotic neutral character."

That's the key word: petty. Beating someone and stripping him of everythig isn't "petty".
 
As an example, a "rebel without a cause" is imo a good example of a CN person.

[eliff]

CN seems more like a robber imo, it describes CE as being destructive crazy villians.  A bandit is more of a lazy or poor person who needs things and will do what they must to get what they can.  They are neutral in the aspect of they aren't out to murder and butcher but they aren't out to help others either.

[Belgaroth]

Read my post again... That's NE, not CN.