Tough quests...

[Winston Martin]

From another thread:

Going on difficult Scripted Quests is already a dismal experience to be avoided at all cost.

Non-judgmentally, is this something that a lot of players agree with?

Absolutely not. It sounds as if this player would prefer to be a sourpuss then ask a friend that is successful at scripted quests for advice on how it is done.

[Staring Death]

I find any quest hard.

[sylvyrdragon]

I love the rush I get right before transitioning into a tough quest, or one that may not be 'tough', but one I haven't been on.  I do however have to say that I have learned the hard way, that there are groups that in no way shape or form will I venture with.

A quest is to be a GROUP effort, if you be frontliner, mid-range protection or Healer / caster, the glory of the fight is to be for ALL of them.

There have been more times than I can count that the deaths I have suffered have been because the frontliners want the glory and leave the rest of us in the dust.  I have had my character die, then sit in the fugue waiting for the 'all clear' only to find out they had finished the quest and 'forgot'.  

We ALL hate loseing XP, but I can deal if it was a well deserved death, if I made the mistake, or my character got in over her head.  

So anyway back to the topic.  Hard quests are great, the threat of death is always around the corner, the adrenline rush of not knowing is part of what makes it all worth it.  Don't change that.

[The Crimson Magician]

I find any quest hard.

[Nas]

Seems some people think the hard quests are easy or not realy hard, but can I ask you a question. What class(s) are you? Bet most of you will say fighter/rogue or some other combo that attempts to up you're hp while still getting the benifits of a low hp classes special. Do you honestly think a group of all fighter/rogues and a ton of healing makes for a good judgement of a quest's difficulty. How about next time instead of taking a bunch of people near the max for the quest lvl req who all have 60-70+ hp instead take people at the lower to mid side with some rogues, clerics or mages added in, charactors who won't have the uber hp of a fighter. I mean most of you basicly have stated the way to win a hard quest is to Metagame and take people you know to be high lvl....
 
Mort, the reason no one complaines about barracks is because 1: Its not done very often and 2:when it is attempted the groups are very restrictive, usualy requiring you to be near the high end of the lvl cap, this is because the groups that don't, have a very good chance to TPK. You also bring up a good point, about asking the low lvl to heal with somthing you give them, only problem is them getting close to the fight can trigger the AI to target them through a group of fighters, meaning they end up running all the way to the start of the quest or dying.
 
The reason people complain about whats new to them is because they have not yet mastered the quest enough to use the OOC info to beat it over and over. I'll bet you when Vrazden first came out people had issues with it, till they mastered the traps, the way in, the best way to prevent goblin acrchers from hitting them, where the traps inside are, where goblin sneak attackers are, and everything else. Now that they have people farm Vraz runs for fun, which is not good.
 
I forget where it is but some of you need to re read the post that states every time you do a scripted quest, its different then the time befor accoring to yer charactor. So no acting like you know where everything is or what to expect, and then using that to base yer group on. I can understand some use of the OOC info but if its entirely what yer group is formed around then thats sad.

[KjetilofNorway]

I love the feeling of danger on this server. Not sure I've done any of the "though quests" though. Hardest I've done is stalwartly holding my ground ("tactically retreating" too, tbh) against waves of waves of orcs. Was a blast. (Sent a few I.O.U. prayers to Moradin that night :))
 
Only critical remark I have, I find the discourse concerning this to be rather schizophrenic on EFU;A. As I understand the culture you are cultivating, the ideal player is daring both in terms of RP and mechanical challenges; he chooses "wacky" feats (that make sense for his character) and favors odd weapons, yet he also fully embraces the arcade game aspects of NWN as he throws himself into the fray without concern for limbs and/or perma-death. Now, that's a tall order!
 
In maintaining a close (almost indistinguishable) relation between the mechanical reality and the roleplayed reality of the game, and when the mechanical reality is rather harsh/difficult; you should be more understanding of people attempting to make decent builds, IMO.
 
My thoughts!
 
Kjetil

[Professor Death]

Also, while I agree the death penalty should be harsh, I do not really like having to spend 1-2 days just to get back to where I was the day before. Losing levels like this can be really discouraging, while I am generally not minding the XP loss too much; I have seen so many people ragequit because they just lost the 'sweet spot' for their class and don't want to spend days relevelling only to die again and repeat.   IMO  Death should be 1/6 1/9 /1/12. (Or be capped at losing 1.5 levels)  That way, even at level 8 you are not going to drop down to level 5.  People who do not powerquest like myself, Nihm, and Naga, usually have a great deal of difficulty leveling up so while losing a couple days/hours for us is  kind of annoying because it means more quests to smash, I can imagine it is more frustrating for the ones who are not shameless powerquesters because it takes them much longer to earn it back.

1-2 days to re-level?  Try 2-3 weeks to re-level on my playing schedule!  That's what I was talking about earlier with my tendency to avoid the "hard" quests.  Although I still do them when it's ICly unavoidable, I go forth fully expecting my death, which often happens *cough* goblin assassins "decloaking" and killing in two rounds my fully invisible and blurred wizard in Vrazdn *end cough*

[Sinister Seneschal]

Only critical remark I have, I find the discourse concerning this to be rather schizophrenic on EFU;A. As I understand the culture you are cultivating, the ideal player is daring both in terms of RP and mechanical challenges;  ...  as he throws himself into the fray without concern for limbs and/or perma-death. Now, that's a tall order! ...

 
Kjetil

Ok, to clarify as a DM, while it's cool to see ballsy characters, I also appreciate a well roleplayed coward or a well roleplayed character who does not rely on brute force.

What I do dislike is people who roleplay brave characters/bad asses but are scared of being challenged in the game OOCly, be it via PVP or difficult quests. If you're gonna play a bad ass, do it well. If you're gonna play a coward, do it well.

I don't think this is an issue at any rate as most of our playerbase is pretty cool about this sorta thing.

[Howlando]

There's a lot of misunderstandings here, only some of which I'll address for now.

The big one is that is your responsibility as a player to enjoy the server in the way you most enjoy.

For some players that will be the challenge of an unusual or zany build and struggling to survive.

For others it will be intrigue, or social RP, or exploration. Others it will be adventuring/questing. And so on.

We have certain guidelines, and each DM no doubt has their own preference, but we're not here to punish players/playstyles we don't like - merely enforce the rules. It is true that part of our rules is that you should play your stats, so if a player makes an extremely min-maxed wood elf barbarian with very little int/charisma/wisdom then we will frown heavily upon them not appropriately roleplaying those reduced stat scores and will act to correct that.

Very few of our quests (particularly on the surface) are truly difficult (of course it's all subjective), and all of our quests can absolutely be beaten by non-optimized characters or parties (a little teamwork and basic NWN competence does help though). But players have the option to do what they want - simple quests or the intense quests, their choice.

The argument that some of our more intense quests are insufficiently rewarding seems pretty off base to me. I guess all I'd say is that if you avoid a quest because you think it's not rewarding enough, just be aware that those who don't may earn advantages with their character (whether it be loot, consumeables, xp, or whatever else) beyond what you'll find on the "easier" quests.

I think it's definitely good for the server to have a few super intense quests that players can attempt at the high level range and still earn XP on, find situations where there's a very serious risk of death, and still face significant excitement/challenge. More are planned and are in the works - it's up to every individual player if they choose to go or not.

[Pup]

More high level quests please.

Really hard quests of varying style.

That sums up my feelings.

[putrid_plum]

I very much enjoy long and hard quests.  They are absolutely worth it for the fun factor.

[AKMatt]

I think it's definitely good for the server to have a few super intense quests that players can attempt at the high level range and still earn XP on, find situations where there's a very serious risk of death, and still face significant excitement/challenge. More are planned and are in the works - it's up to every individual player if they choose to go or not.

Please let one of these be a voyage quest.  There is so much opportunity for high seas adventure.

It would be sweet if it was like the Odyssey, but with each island you arrive at being another optional QA.  Somewhere in the chain could be really nice islands where you just get to rest and stuff, but most of them are horrible, deadly affairs.

[Random_White_Guy]

I have heard numerous great things about hard quests, except one thing: The Length.

I've heard from players there are some 3+ hour quests, and while I think that's kind of cool, I honestly couldn't ever see myself partaking in such unless it was a DM involved thing that I had been working to advance for quite some time.

Higher level and intense is awesome, but 3 Hours+ Is a little much I think. Maybe instead of length, simply place harder monsters, on a semi-regular length quest maybe?

[Sedarine]

Please let one of these be a voyage quest.  There is so much opportunity for high seas adventure.

It would be sweet if it was like the Odyssey, but with each island you arrive at being another optional QA.  Somewhere in the chain could be really nice islands where you just get to rest and stuff, but most of them are horrible, deadly affairs.

This is a fantastic idea!

I like tough quests, but you guys know it can be tough to get a good group together that stick together for that amount of time!

[BringOutYourDead]

I gotta agree with quite a few other people have said. Challenging and hard quests are great. But long quests makes things tedious and irritating, e.g. keeper swarms with 50% concealment (has the DMs reached a new ruling on that by the way?).