Tough quests...

[Disco]

Personaly I enjoy the hard quests way more than the easy ones, But you have to take into thought that it will be expensive for a character to do this, so you have to be well equiped and that makes it hard to do for alot of players.
But all in all i absolutely love doing the hard quests, even though it happens too seldon.

[SN]

Challenges are fun.

Tough quests are fun.

Doing the Hive quest without a buffer for instance is fun and a great challenge eating TONS of consumables.

Tough quests are fun, as the adrenaline kicks in bad.

I don't see any reason to change anything with it. (Aside from the Orc Berzerkers not dropping a CSW potion anymore, usually ending up with people almost killing each other when loot-splitting for any healing potions that drop. IMO, to have changed their drop, was a mistake. As, if one of the members of your party on the Orc quests commits -1- mistake, you end up using 10-15 such potions.)

Scripted quests are fun. If anything is to change, I'd like to see more of them myself however. Can make one want to throw up sometimes, to do all teh SAME ones again when making a new character. (not to mention, that the journal entry about scripted Q's mentions over a 100 of them >.<)

And seriously, how much I despise it, I still love the D&D randomness when it comes to dying - a fun example - my PC is at 1/2 HP. I decide to drink a pot, surrounded by 3 berzerkers. They all score a Crit on an attack of opportunity. Plop. Insta-fugue.

Annoying, but it is how it is. FUn as well.

Not that I make much sense here, so.. over and out!


EDIT: Oh, and one last thought. Tough quests usually pay back ONLY if the party rumbled through the quest Flawlessly. No single mistake. Change this. Make the quests pay back also if the party isn't a perfect party and commits a few mistakes on the way.

[MexicanGunslinger]

I do not think so at all, you cant expect it to be a walk in a park at all.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The reward for hard quests is fun and xpzzzz.
The reward for easy quests is loot to burn through on hard quests.
Not that I'd complain about more loot. >_>

[Letsplayforfun]

The server is very well balanced in terms of difficulty imo: easy quests, that give loot to do harder quests, and lots of medium quests. If some players don't like doing harder quests... just don't, there's plenty to go around.

What i do have a problem with is the balancing in consummables: sometimes i just hoard lots of ressources, and then suddenly i'm as dry as a desert (tougher quest, things go wrong, tough DM spice) and it takes time to build up supplies again. I don't mind because i play a lot, but for players with less time to 'start again', it might be rough.

Speaking of 'harder quests', maybe it's worth asking those that are considered such. (and even then, it so much depends on who you quest with...) For example, for me, the tough quests are (for varying reasons):
- orcs part2
- lizard men
- sewer goblins
- barracks
- archeological society.
- evil below

It doesn't come as a surprise, too, because those never get called for via sendings.

[FleetingHeart]

Moar perma death.

[Egon the Monkey]

Pretty much what Kotenku said.
Facing a constant challenge that tests your ability to adapt and cope with the threat is fun. Facing something that can smackdown your frontline in 2 rounds isn't. It's "I hope we finish it before it crits down Bob"

That's a big gripe with mine with tough-ass mobs. The best way to deal with a risk of that is on a caster is to load up Holding and  Stoneskin or imp invis usually. When I've ran my mages with nuking loadouts occasionally, and I've found "insurmountable horde" more fun than "half a dozen badasses". Why? Because a well placed Fear, Fireball, Colorspray etc can swing the fight. Load up on evocations for Harpies and you'll see what I mean.

I'd love to see more quests where the usual tactics just won't work. Say, you have to fight a legion of Kobolds, who aren't that strong, but have sorcs spamming Dispels and summoning Oozes (As those see past invis).  Have this information given by the quest giver NPC, so PCs have an IC reason to use different tactics.

[Mort]

We have tough quests? That's new.

[Mort]

Just as an aside, I'm surprised that Orc part I, and Nightriser part I dont show up in that list. Those quests, when I introduced them, people were like "WAAAAAAAAH! Too hard! Doesn't pay enough." -- Probably a similar thing with gnolls.

Barely touched them since then so- what happened? Attitude toward them has certainly changed. The fact that people go "WAAAAAAAH! Too hard. Doesn't pay enough!" to anything *new* to them or their character is common to a lot of people.

I've seen a group of 3 level 5s finish brood lair quest. One of them did die, but they finished it.

The thing is -- The harder the quest. The more teamwork it requires. If you do hard quest with people that dont play team, it will show and you will burn tons of thing.

Share your stuff for the purpose of the quest. Give a healing crystal to that low level who does nothing in the back and ask him to keep you healed. Share stuff with other warriors and dont hoard.

If you have good teamwork, any quest aside from enclave (and even then!) can seem real easy.

[Equinox]

I'm going to agree with mort,

I've done pretty much every quest on the surface, barring the enclave. And while -some- of them are tough as nails, there have been instances where good teamwork, and well prepared pc's have steam rollered them. I love the idea of a good challenge. A lot of people know i've played some pc's that are well known for their powerquesting. but thats mainly cause i just love the intesnity of some of the quests we have.

I like the fear factor, knowing that at any given time, shit could and possibly will go horribly wrong. And the main reason whinge about finding quest too hard is very simple, they all believe in "saving their REALLY AWESOME stuff" for PvP.

Which is just retarded, If i think my pc might be in a bad situation i have no problem with using -everything- at my disposal to stay on my feet, wherether it be pvp, scripted or dm quests. Thats my opinion on why a lot of people whine about stuff being too hard, it not actually, it just you refuse to make it easier on yourselves.

[Germain]

The various "hard" quests in the server are just that... hard.  Yet I must say that every one of these hard quests have considerable pay out, spoils to be collected, and of course the XP.  Yes you will have to tap into your bag of potions, trinkets, and  items to see them completed... but honestly what are you carrying all that stuff around for if not to use it to survive?  

From another thread:

Going on difficult Scripted Quests is already a dismal experience to be avoided at all cost.

Non-judgmentally, is this something that a lot of players agree with?

To be back on point of the original question... this is not something I agree with, Howland.  I think going on difficult Scripted Quests is in fact a way to challenge your PC in an environment where either glory will be had or death will befall you... though not permanent unless you wish it to be.

[PanamaLane]

I prefer the tougher quests with less then optimal parties because you have to use your mind, not just mash the "a" button. Then again, that's likely why in 4 years I've only had two characters make lvl 8.

As a side, I don't think its useful to essentially call players who air grievances babies. Disagree with them if you like, but the characterization of them as immature whiners is not productive.

[erglion]

If you have good teamwork, any quest aside from enclave (and even then!) can seem real easy.

I agree, but this isn't something that you can always control, and shouldn't.  While more experienced players and better-connected characters can gather their super-team for quests, there are many reasons this doesn't happen all the time. For example, you invite along less experienced players/characters, or someone you brought out does not get along IC.

I'm sure some people do always gather super-teams, but then that essentially changes what is defined as difficult.  (Maybe that is part of what Mort is saying though)

[Drakill Tannan]

Readgin most of the posts above, i can say, there should be as many easy quests as tough quests. Because it's true you have to find a party of inteligent people to actually take on thouse, and that is dificult.

On a note aside, regarding Mort's second post, quests are only hard unitll you know how to complete them. Once you learn what to do in certian scenarios the scenarios no longer are a threat, if you are carefull. Sure, that's metagaming, but it can't be avoided, even if you wanted too.

[Gippy]

There has to be some challenge to balance the server. I would not play here if it was simply an easy grind to level 10-11. Being high level, with difficult quests, means you're a team player and that  you've got friends. This is good. That said, there's really not too many hard quests on the server. Hard is certainly just a matter of opinion. Sometimes though, I sort of relent spice on already hard or long quests, 3 hours for one quest already seems enough. >_>