Expertise and Improved Expertise

[Random_White_Guy]

It should similarly be possible to de-toggle Power Attack, Dirty Fighting, Parry, Defensive Casting, Detect, Stealth, and any other "modes" I've forgotten. This is a neat concept from City of Heroes/Villains - and really awesome for PvP.

Furthermore, loot that allows you to ignore certain de-toggles would be great. They should be amulets, armor, or maybe anything other than rings (since you can wear two of those), so that you have to decide between stats or security.

I believe this would be suitably awesome, if posisble.

[lovethesuit]

I disagree with the idea of an item that, when thrown at a target, reduces their AC by 5 or 10 points. If there were a save involved, say Concentration, or Fortitude, whatever, that wouldn't be as bad.

[meow-mix]

The round-timing to activate expertise is finnicky, sometimes waiting an extra round to re-engage if it is clicked a quarter second too late.  I think if monsters start cancelling expertise and such, all you are going to get is more full/half party wipes.  The opponents in many of the quests on EfU feature attack bonuses that are triflingly high, leading to the prevalence of the "expertise fighter."  What you will, instead have, is a monster detoggling the feat, the player reclicking it on, and occasionally it simply will not work, and the player will be surrounded by monsters with 15AB that do 15 damage a hit.  When he is killed in that single round, the whole party will break and everyone will be emo about it.

script more monsters to use the taunt feat, or put in more spellcasting monsters, or script the expertise feat to provide lessened bonuses (like a secondary +2AB/-2AC).  I simply have the feeling that changing statuses and actions on the player side will be buggy, and leave people with hard feelings.

my two cents!
Meow-mix!

[Jasede]

I like it, sounds good! Especially against PvP noobs who think using Expertise is ever a good idea in a duel; it'd make it easier to finish those fights because you don't fall asleep from boredom.


(Have you ever seen /anyone/ use Expertise in PvP and come out for the better for it?)

I disagree with the idea of an item that, when thrown at a target, reduces their AC by 5 or 10 points. If there were a save involved, say Concentration, or Fortitude, whatever, that wouldn't be as bad.

]
I agree there should be a check, but I also believe that you are forgetting that it's not just an AC increase by 5 or 10, but also a THAC0 decrease by 5 or 10 points.

Edit: Oops, I mean AC decrease and AB increase.

[Oskar Maxon]

I agree with Meow-mix that it would cause a lot of pain in pve, but it might be nice in pvp.

[Egon the Monkey]

(Have you ever seen /anyone/ use Expertise in PvP and come out for the better for it?)

Yep.
Morningblood. Repeatedly.
One of my characters, against a taunter.

What it is good for is running out the clock on domain powers, Divine Power, Barbarian Rage, Taunts, and other powerful, short duration effects.

[Relinquish]

I have a bard that uses taunt+expertise in duels, and its effective. (She beat belm in a duel without getting hit once :P)

[Random_White_Guy]

It'd be fun to have crazy evil pranksters removing Expertise from the frontliner and running off giggling, too.

[Jasede]

Elite Kobold Jester!

Also, thanks Egon, that's some uses of Expertise I tend to overlook sometimes; it's pretty clever to let those kick-ass buffs run out if you can't dispel 'em.

[Anonymous Bosch]

There are lots of non-noobish ways to use expertise.
It levels the playing field against high ab, low ac enemies, you can take a few rounds to check out your opponent's capabilities and you can screw your opponent's chance of scoring crits (a deal breaker against some).
 
Monsters breaking expertise seems like a very bad idea, unless the idea is to kill expertise fighters.
PvP, it seems like a very good idea.
A player would have to spend a round using the item anyway, so it's not as though it's going to flip the scales on their head or anything.
And if there's to be a check, I'd say concentration is the one.  Those expertisers have at least 13 int anyway, so they can afford the skill points.

[BringOutYourDead]

If this is implemented, I would suggest there being a way for the one being de-expertised to get a more attention grabbing message than the usual one the engine uses.

[ScottyB]

It would be hard to control when someone can re-activate Expertise Mode. If the timing is just right, they can bring it back up immediately after seeing it go down. If the timing is bad, it might take a round and a half (effectively 2 rounds) for it to be on again.

There isn't a clean way to "suppress" Expertise Mode, just toggle on/off. Perhaps the feat activation itself can be hooked into NWNX, but I don't know for sure. If we could hook activations of non-spell-based feats then we'd have added a stealth hook + cooldown for people with HiPS a long time ago, I think.

[FleetingHeart]

Supported... only if there is some kind of save against. I think discipline is likely the best candidate.

[erglion]

Why not just use Taunt.

It works effectively the same way as people are suggesting, but with Concentration.

I am not suggesting that we Taunt to implement the above, but that could be one approach.

I am saying why bother with some other effect when we already have Taunt.

Best of all Taunt works regardless of whether the opponent is using E/IE.  It also causes spell failure.  It potentially lasts longer than the 2 rounds suggested.  This is balanced by the fact it costs skill points to acquire, and you must take a round flat-footed in melee to try it.   Could AI be set to Taunt more often, with certain monsters invested in the skill?

[FleetingHeart]

Taunt is great, but less useful for certain most classes since it is cross class. This would just allow other classes an option to break through certain types of defenses.