Remove XP cost from Potion brewing

[Vlaid]

So I used to be against this, but the way the economy of EFUR works where you are rewarded most often in gold to buy potions, the XP cost on brewing has made it somewhat annoying. Especially as the player counts have been hitting the lower side lately with fewer PCs to buy potions from.

Basically people (intentionally or unintentionally from the xp costs of brewing) stay around level 6-7 brewing a ton and getting xp off the lower level quests which offer a larger amount of XP at that level for far less risk. Once they've earned enough and reach higher level they will no longer ever want to brew and we just have to wait for the next new brewing PC to come along to want to brew.

It would probably be involving to script, but what if instead of an XP cost there was just a max number of potions you could brew per reset or per rest as the limiting factor instead of "am I over 8/9?"

One of the most tedious and probably least interesting forms of RP for me is trying to find a brewer over and over again.

[Maimed]

Reduce the EXP cost but increase the gold cost OR make it more viable for higher level brewers to gain the EXP to cover the costs.

You aren't going to get something for nothing here.

[MrGrendel]

The  issue is that the price of gaining /xp/ rises dramatically, so a higher level brewer is paradoxically paying a much higher price to brew than a presumably less skilled one. So just reduce xp cost as your level goes up, because 500 xp at L6 is worth a lot less than 500xp at L10. By how much is the real question... You could compare times to earn it in average quest durations by levels... By no means perfect since it doesn't take risk and resulting xp loss into account.

[HalflingPower]

In my experience, the biggest deterrent that keeps people from brewing potions is that it takes a feat to brew potions. Being a potion brewer is almost a concept as a supply crafter/merchant and has less to do with experience.

I am entirely for there to be no experience taken when potions are brewed but I don't think that will solve your issue, which is a conceptual one and the whims of others rather than a mechanical issue.

Raising the cost of brewing potions would probably hurt the remaining playerbase's interest in doing fun things, as supplies would become even more scarce than they already are.

[TheImpossibleDream]

It would be nice if reagents gathered through the EFUSS system/monster drops could be used to negate the experience points cost of a potion. The gold cost should always remain. I have no idea of how difficult such a system would be to implement or if the benefits merit the time investment.

[Letsplayforfun]

I'm not sold on this.

Pay more and high lvl pcs will continue to brew. For example Dalman and Pereppi were both lvl10 and never stopped brewing (+withered cures XP lost for the latter).

The problem is that the player expects a price and his pc rarely (if ever) rps the part where lvl9 mage says potions are better than Joes just came to town.

Also,mechanically if high lvl pcs have access to both power, continued XPs and gold easily, it'll be unbalanced.

Potions costs could be upped to be on par with npc merchants, so that people who don't want to buy from Joe the other faction guy or who just can't find a pc brewer can still access these vital items via NPCs.

But making it cheaper/ easier will only increase potion bloat.

[WriterX]

As somebody who currently is playing a Brewer, who keeps advertising his products, I have to say that I see no real issue with Experience Loss.

There was, in fact, a period of time when I actually lost more XP than I gained, because of the volume of orders, but that was just a single case, and Beflas does not quest all that much, so it seems natural that there would be points in time when he is slowly losing XP, rather than gaining it.

[Spiffy Has]

Potion bloat is not a /bad thing./ I am all for this, and would rather prefer potion bloat to people not doing anything due to lack of supplies.

It ISN"T FUN to have no supplies to QUEST or do other exciting things, like plot, PvP, assassinate, defend against assassinations, etc....

[hedsik]

Potion hoarding is almost impossible anyway so i do not believe bloat an issue, let's get a bit more merry with our downing of the 'PvP only potions'

[Vlaid]

There are only two issues here.

1) As you get higher level the XP you spend on brewing is more valuable compared to the gold you can make from brewing comparatively to what it was as you were lower level. Some people might be willing to spend the XP at higher levels but it is by far not the majority. I would also point out out that a lot of the higher level quests XP rewards were nerfed after the PCs that were quoted above.

2) Rewards from scripted questing and often DM quests come largely in the form of gold which you then have to find a brewer to turn into supplies.

Less players, less brewers, people can't get the potions to do anything.

[TheImpossibleDream]

The problem is that the player expects a price and his pc rarely (if ever) rps the part where lvl9 mage says potions are better than Joes just came to town.

Both in an ooc and ic sense brewed potions made by a  level 40 wizard have the same strength as those brewed by a level 5  wizard. I could see them being roleplayed as more palatable, but I don't think a character fighting for his life in a post apocalyptic world cares enough about creature comforts to pay extra.

Also,mechanically if high lvl pcs have access to both power, continued XPs and gold easily, it'll be unbalanced.

I can see where your coming from here, but more often than not the brewer is contacted by characters who have "access to both power, continued XPs and gold easily."

A level 5 brewer who sells high volumes is equally detrimental to balance as a higher level brewer. Going further you could say that lower levels are worse for the balance of consumables. They have much more potential to be numerous due to the accessibility of the lower levels.

Potions costs could be upped to be on par with npc merchants, so that people who don't want to buy from Joe the other faction guy or who just can't find a pc brewer can still access these vital items via NPCs.

But making it cheaper/ easier will only increase potion bloat.

I don't think anyone is advocating a reduction in the gold cost of potions.

[Pandip]

What if potions made by high level brewers had a higher caster level or a chance of being created with a higher caster level?

I think the issue here is that Joe Blow level 3 brewer creates potions with the exact same potency as the experienced, well-traveled level 10 brewer whose experience is much more valuable, which is the case OOCly but isn't translated IC or in the mechanics of potion brewing.

[PanamaLane]

Get rid of potion brewing. This is not a troll statement. I'm always amazed at the massive stacks of potions I find on other characters, the fact that they have become "required" for pvp and that gold is basically your potion fund and not much else.

Instead, expand alchemy and herbalism, make PCs work to learn the recipes. It gives more value to those trinkets and alchemical products by not having to compete with a simple feat anyone can take at lvl 3. Perhaps taking the brew potion feat could open up a number of recipes which you would still be required to get the reagents for?

The only potions PCs "need" are healing realistically, the rest should be about discovery, quest drops, rewards. This fuels competition for limited resources, and gets "brewers" to be more active in researching recipes, and PCs more brave about taking risks to obtain those rewards.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Get rid of potion brewing. This is not a troll statement. I'm always amazed at the massive stacks of potions I find on other characters, the fact that they have become "required" for pvp and that gold is basically your potion fund and not much else.

Gold has always been your potion fund in EFU and potions have always been an essential edge in every circumstance.

Instead, expand alchemy and herbalism, make PCs work to learn the recipes. It gives more value to those trinkets and alchemical products by not having to compete with a simple feat anyone can take at lvl 3. Perhaps taking the brew potion feat could open up a number of recipes which you would still be required to get the reagents for?

Once upon a time it was possible to craft potions through various EFUSS  skills. They were removed because they cost no experience to make and no  matter  how secret a recipe is kept the information slowly trickled out until it  became extremely easily accessible.

The only potions PCs "need" are healing realistically, the rest should be about discovery, quest drops, rewards. This fuels competition for limited resources, and gets "brewers" to be more active in researching recipes, and PCs more brave about taking risks to obtain those rewards.

Why would you need healing more than any other spell? Surely if you can make do with somebody casting Bulls Strength you can make do with somebody casting a healing spell on you every time you're wounded.

Imagine how tedious that would be? Potions create an interesting dynamic and allow DM's to use exceptionally strong monsters that would otherwise kill your party. Having to carefully maintain your magic wards through drinking the right potion or using the right item at the right time keeps combat in nwn fresh.

Without them combat with powerful monsters would amount to "Do I have the most optimum build to fight this creature? Am I lucky?" rather than "Should I use a potion for this monster? Is it the worst that I'll meet, can I live without doing so? Can I make do with just a few buffs? Do I need everything? Is that thing over there casting dispel magic?!"

What you're suggesting sounds like a throw back to servers where combat amounted to left clicking a hostile and then going afk/tabbing until it dies or you need to click your healing button.

All in all horrifically dull.

[manyscruples]

There's currently nothing stopping people from making alts who sell their friends potions at base cost; it's something that has happened before and is likely happening right now.   I agree that potion brewing should be something you have to work at in game, however that'd completely skewer the current supply system - where in you earn gold and turn that gold into supplies.  Complicated issue and might just be more trouble than its worth.  If anything though, high leveled brewers should be given something to compensate for their higher XP hits.