A note on PVP rules and my stance on subdual

[I love cats]

"If you have been subdued, you should remain on the ground until the PvP is resolved or until you have DM permission to get up. This includes situations where there is mass fighting going on, and you have been healed. If you have been subdualed, you are down and should remain so regardless of any other situation. This includes if you were sent to blackout mode, this counts as being subdualed."  

Allow me to share some further education on this rule so no one shoots themselves in the foot like I did. I would very much hate for a PC to end up in my same situation. Nor would I have thought that after being allowed to leave I would have been allowed to drink potions and show up for revenge unhindered by the defeat I had endured. So consider this post a very long and much needed update to a current PVP rule listed.

One would think that if you're told you can get up/are allowed to go after enduring a harsh beating someone would not be able to have the strength/be able to just instantly start fighting again. Well you are simply incorrect if you believed this. So if you feel like showing a nice bit of IG/OOC courtesy by letting a person go that your character doesent feel like dealing with you do so at the risk of them simply returning unphazed by their defeat. You also are free to do this very same thing.

Meaning that if you have subdued a person and then told them they can go and you let them up even if they didn't leave the area that means apparently that they are free to just drink a gazillion potions and come charging right at you. So in the future if you decide to let someone get up. It doesent matter if they haven't even left the area or had any time to recover from defeat. if they were given your permission to get up/leave they can reengage again in PVP that they lost in the first place. Also if you have been subdued and think you have been let go you are free an allowed to chug as many potions as you want and resume combat the instant says you can get up/go.  


A Dilemma and my thoughts on PVP and Characters


Being allowed to survive and live after a combat is a privilege and not a right. Many confrontations involving arms usually involve death or the loss of limbs. Being spared by an enemy combatant should be seen as a blessing not often given especially in a post apocalyptic setting such as EFUR.

I have decided my last string of characters were too lenient in letting PCS they subdued leave the situation alive. As much as I like promoting and telling a better story. Also presuming people would realistically have characters consider that their life was just on the line and they were just spared. Instead my future PCS will now presume that no one has this gratefulness for life and will be less reasonable with cutting people deals and breaks almost as if they were controlled by another entity that has no regard for if they live or die. I usually put a lot of thought and detail into my character's and usually attempt to give them a unique personality and their own perspective. Even the ability to be changed and influenced by others. Also of course extreme flaws. I see making a character and a story as a work of art. I would even go on to say that I love my character.  

Consistently since EFUR I have had this dilemma of losing characters and the sole reason being by making the mistake of prolonging encounter's and letting characters live in the name of trying to tell a  and promote a story. Because counting on PCS I have spared to not come back against me or form revenge gank squads is simply something stupid to do.

Simply put the message from the player base and DMS on my dilemma both IG and OOC have been that I was a moron and so were my characters. Simply put this was even mentioned IG about one of my characters for sparing a PC. Simply put if you lose a character because my PC or another has an inkling of a suspicion that you're the sort to do call up your posse and do a revenge gank squad oh well.      

Honestly my string of characters have just determined the player base is too immature for merciful PCS.

[VanillaPudding]

Tear them up doc

[Knight Of Pentacles]

This has always been allowed but seen as being of EXTREMELY poor taste.  I encourage villains to be far less lenient towards people who have a history of being discourteous.   Courtesy is karmatic, if you show it you get it; If you don't, don't expect it!  

Also note that subdual is a courtesy.

[Faux News]

note that subdual is a courtesy.

It's actually kind of not, because you're always expected to extend said courtesy. Beginning a fight on full damage is not only considered extremely poor taste, but I'm pretty sure that's the sort of thing that will actually get you in trouble with the DMs.

I once learned that it was probably not a good idea to use the forums as a soapbox, especially so recently after an incident that agitated me. It's a valuable lesson.

[HalflingPower]

As a guy who loves to play bandits. +1

[Knight Of Pentacles]

It's actually kind of not, because you're always expected to extend said courtesy. Beginning a fight on full damage is not only considered extremely poor taste, but I'm pretty sure that's the sort of thing that will actually get you in trouble with the DMs.

I once learned that it was probably not a good idea to use the forums as a soapbox, especially so recently after an incident that agitated me. It's a valuable lesson.

Could swear there was a post somewhere when subdual was first implemented about how it was a courtesy extended by players to other players.  Either way, there are many situations where FD is certainly warranted yet a courteous player will stay their hand.  This might be happening too much towards some players.

[Kinslayer988]

Conduct yourself with honor as a player. Think about what others would do. Is it worth it?

[xxWhisperingWindsxx]

I believe these were the links you were looking for.

From Howland:  http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40
Those are the basic rules of PvP.

From JaydeMoon:  More on class, karma, to FD or subdue
http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92916
http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63092

[Random_White_Guy]

Knock'em out the box luke.

Knock'em out.

[Door]

If you're still feeling raw about the DM ruling feel free to PM me about it, I'll be more than happy to take this case to the big man so that a compromise may be reached - if you'd like, that is.

I'm disappointed that you've made to raise your issue with the encounter both on the IRC channel as well as on here [SIZE="1"](nevermind the vital omissions and the amount of disinformation that peppers your story)[/SIZE] rather than first coming to me about it to pose your concerns.

I'm like to be more receptive than it would seem, champ!

[Apocryphal Misconceptions]

"I have decided my last string of characters were too lenient in letting PCS they subdued leave the situation alive."

When you're playing a monster,  mugger, villain etc. then you sign up for the fact that you are restricted to certain obligations of courtesy. You made this character expecting to PVP. These kinds of characters have to be tasteful in how they decide to do things. We're playing this game together and it is perfectly easy to ruin people's fun when you really want to.

You made the decision to play a mugger and while that is perfectly cool (really, more please), please expect people to come looking for you in an attempt to stop your rampage.

If you released someone and he turned back on you then that is sour. It's something you need to sort out with the DMs however, and not throw a passive aggressive rage fit about. ;)

Anyway, good luck with your next!

[TeufelHunden]

This happened to me on multiple occasions on characters in the prime of their lives. I would get in pvp combat with someone, beat them, spare them and then have them come back in less than 5 minutes with a posse and invis gank FD me. It always hurts when you give someone courtesy and they then decide that they are above courtesy themselves.

[Letsplayforfun]

Re-engaging PVP a short while after being defeated is a lousy attitude, even if per se we wrote no rules about it.

Not only is it a lack of respect for the courtesy shown by your previous victor, but it also encourages people to FD "just in case".

If you have a specific instance, speak to a DM. These passive -aggressive posts are usually counter productive, so I'm locking this thread.

[wcsherry]

It's fair to expect a gank squad after a spectacular beat down. True glory is achieved when one sub duals the entire gank squad ;)

Seriously. This is how legends are born!

[Big Orc Man]

I was the DM overseeing this (the one who gave you a rather large XP bonus for the success of the original PVP).

You voluntarily let the opposing character out of custody, thus ending the PVP incident.

That player chose to have his character heal himself up and return to initiate a new PVP incident, which you promptly lost.

The other player had full rights within the rules to return and start a new fight.

I can't say I would have done the same thing, but do you really want DM's micromanaging everything players do?  Do you really want us arbitrarily making decisions about how classy different legal actions are and intervening from on high?

You did the cool thing and let the person go, and then you got wrecked.  If you were on the other side of the equation, you'd be pretty upset if a DM punished you somehow when you didn't actually break a rule!

For what it's worth, I love when your bloodthirsty characters tear things up like they do, but it sort of diminishes the cool factor when you inevitably surface a dramatic reaction to it on IRC and on the forums.  The real reason you lost the fight is not that the other person was being uncool, or that the DM on site was cruelly indifferent.  You lost the fight because you lost the fight, and that's on you!