Balance Issue: Traps

[Blackthorn]

Really? A CR5 Monster with a Trap that does over 100 Damage?  There needs to be a serious balance rework here.  I'm sorry but there is no reason that a low level monster that does not yield XP and that I can kill in 1 shot should be able to lay a trap that is so high level that it takes me from over 100 HP to -10 instantly.  One such trap just hit me in an exploration area and I'm sorry but I am absolutely furious, even pissed off about it.  I'm okay with dying, god knows I've done it plenty of times - but this is nothing short of retarded and I seriously suggest that Balance be considered regarding traps like this.  There is no reason such a low level monster should be able to instantly fugue a high level PC with lots of HP in 1 shot.  It's ridiculous.  Please fix this.

Risk Vs Reward.  No Reward.  Risk is instant death.  Sound right to you? Sounds like garbage to me.

[Spiffy Has]

Basically, he found a 100+ dmg trap in an area with an ettercap and a few spiders. This seems a bit off, and the trap should likely be removed before some enterprising rogue gets ahold of it.

It would probably help if you listed the area where the Trap was as well, Blackthorn.

[Grotesque]

Traps are easily avoidable through means of using summons to trigger the mechanism. Any explorer worth his salt would do well to check if his spoils are trapped or not. If this was an epic trap randomly placed along a pathway, however, I can sympathize with your concern. But ettercaps are renown trappers!

As for the trap retrieval, I wouldn't be too concerned with enterprising rogues getting ahold of these high-tier traps as they'd need 45 set trap minimum to plant them. Which I doubt any rogue will ever have.

[VanillaPudding]

Traps are easily avoidable through means of using summons to trigger the mechanism. Any explorer worth his salt would do well to check if his spoils are trapped or not. If this was an epic trap randomly placed along a pathway, however, I can sympathize with your concern. But ettercaps are renown trappers!

As for the trap retrieval, I wouldn't be too concerned with enterprising rogues getting ahold of these high-tier traps as they'd need 45 set trap minimum to plant them. Which I doubt any rogue will ever have.

No one really cares nor wants to instantly die to a trap of said nature (being on the high end of the setting level -cap-). With that said, it was probably just an error in setting this type over that when the area was made, and so including the area in the "suggestion" would indeed be best.

[MaximumOverDrive]

While I have never been killed by a creature laying a trap I have to strongly agree with blackthorn in this area. Creatures are not like characters and can thus be given extreme strengths in one area and pathetic in the others, but a low rank monster that can place insta death out is truly kinda fudged up. Now if you were to put a worthy reward forth it wouldnt leave someone feeling like they have been jipped, ESPECIALLY to high levels who have spent, days? Weeks? Months? Of their irl time reaching that point only to have it flushed down the drain by a unorthodox mega trap in a single moment in return for nothing. It also can be discouraging to taking risks, or adventuring beyond a quest grind that is predictable, and with knowledge of experience to make every other time easier (lets face it. If you walked into a 50 damage permanent trap last time you went through, its not going to happen again.) And that yield a much signifigantly higher reward, as opposed to this situation where you go out, and get KO'd by uber trap from noob monster and get nothing out of it, its just not fun... so why have it?. Im all about extreme risk, super danger, even without warning... But i also strongly believe in the balance of risk vs reward and scenarios like this imo are nothing but infuriating causes for discouragement, and time wasting, and id suggest removing them entirely, or altering them to balance that risk vs reward.

[Damien]

I rage when I die as well.


It's fine how it is, this sort of random brutality is the life blood of efu.

[d1n4l9q7]

I believe I visited the area in question as well after the event. I would say a 100 damage trap was an oversight and likely would be tweaked to a non 96% of the server insta-fugue trap. Hopefully! Considering the area in question isn't a powerful place.

[Caster13]

Among other things, it would be helpful if you listed/describe the location--in a private suggestion post.

[Blackthorn]

As requested I made a private suggestion to try to identify the area name.  I'm still pretty heated about losing so much to that trap after absolutely effortlessly murdering all of the stuff in the room.  Dont get me wrong, I am not unfamiliar with dying in efu.  I've died plenty of times.  One of my PCs even lost (not even kidding) 28-30k XP within 2 hours due to quest deaths.  It sucked but it was understandable given the difficulty of the quests.  This death however just seriously felt like nothing short of bull crap.  It's the kind of thing that seriously demotivates you from playing.  You kill a spawn of effortless monsters and as a reward lose 100% of your gold and 8k XP.

[Letsplayforfun]

Damn, a trap that actually hurts people. Shame, please remove it.

Com'on folks!

We're all way too used to running over traps because most wont harm us much. To the extent of some people jumping down pit traps ...

Death traps are rough but should make everyone think twice about moving around in dangerous places.

I have no idea about this specific event/trap or whatnot, but being put at near death/bleeding on a trap at any lvl could  be the norm in many dungeons. Low hp classes shouldn't be the only ones to worry about traps.

Traps may be tailored to party lvl in quest areas, but in an explorable, it makes no sense.

So long as the said trap can be spotted, this is a none issue.

[Blackthorn]

Well figure, the trap was not detected by any of us.  It was in a very tiny explorable worth maybe 50xp.  The room contained a handful of spiders and ettercap, of which myself and the other warrior killed without so much as even taking a single HP of damage because the spawn was SOOO low level that each of us outleveled the monsters by 4+ levels.  We cleared the room effortlessly and then boom.  100+hp worth of suprise trap to the face.

 I know there are some dangerous places out there with insane traps (As is expected and as there should be), but given the low challenge and absolute lack of reward it just REALLY feels like that trap was FAR too out of balance, given the location and source.  It was the kind of death that makes you feel like your being punished for daring to leave sanctuary, rather than the kind of death that you stop and say "Yeah this was a risk and death was a real possibility because I was in a very dangerous place full of very dangerous creatures."  Instead it was "Well, I just got blown up and insta-killed in an area so low level/challenge that the only way the monsters could even kill me is if I AFKed for 20 minutes in front of them."

[Caster13]

First, a preface.

Well figure, the trap was not detected by any of us. It was in a very tiny explorable worth maybe 50xp.

The size of a room is not indicative of how large or dangerous the threats are held within it.

The room contained a handful of spiders and ettercap, of which myself and the other warrior killed without so much as even taking a single HP of damage because the spawn was SOOO low level that each of us outleveled the monsters by 4+ levels.

Just because an ettercap is easy to kill, doesn't mean it can't be dangerous in subtle or other ways. Or, alternatively, maybe the ettercap wasn't what placed the treasure and the trap? Maybe those things were placed there by something/someone else and the ettercap was merely squatting?

We cleared the room effortlessly and then boom.  100+hp worth of suprise trap to the face.

Hubris, overconfidence, cockiness--all the downfall of many an adventure. Just like Hannibal made it look as if the Romans would crush him at Cannae, you were fooled by an easy looking target, let your guard down, and fell for a feint.

I know there are some dangerous places out there with insane traps (As is expected and as there should be), but given the low challenge and absolute lack of reward it just REALLY feels like that trap was FAR too out of balance, given the location and source.

First: The idea that the level of challenge should be consistent and uniform in an area/explorable/dungeon is baseless. Should all the goblins in a dungeon full of goblins be as powerful as the chief goblin boss at the end? Should all dungeon bosses be as weak as the first, weak minion you find in the first room? If you walk into the LowerDark, come across a single hook horror which you kill easily, would you then think "oh, I guess I won't come across anything as dangerous as a beholder down here"?

Second: I haven't checked yet, but it's likely the reward that spawns inside the chest is randomized.

It was the kind of death that makes you feel like your being punished for daring to leave sanctuary

Your mistake wasn't leaving Sanctuary. Rather, your mistake could be one or more of many things: not bringing along a skilled trap-spotter (or not giving the trap spotter time and chance to examine for traps), presuming that the chest wasn't trapped, presuming that the ettercap was the only threat in the room, presuming that all other threats were equivalent to how dangerous the ettercap was.

rather than the kind of death that you stop and say "Yeah this was a risk and death was a real possibility because I was in a very dangerous place full of very dangerous creatures."

The Underdark as a whole is dangerous. The amount of blood spilled on the streets of Upper Sanctuary, considered by most to be perhaps the safest place of all, could rival the volume of the Dark Lake. While yes, areas which are generally near where low level PCs would travel aren't as dangerous others, as LPFF has pointed out, the crazy stuff found in the explorables have no expectations of limits.

Instead it was "Well, I just got blown up and insta-killed in an area so low level/challenge that the only way the monsters could even kill me is if I AFKed for 20 minutes in front of them."

If the area contained such a powerful trap, than the area isn't low level/challenge is it? I'm fond of trap mazes and no one would argue that a dungeon without a single creature but plenty of traps would be considered "low level".

[Talir]

Locking this thread. Relevant information was put in the private suggestion post.

For future reference, for everyone, don't make rage posts. No matter what happened. If there's an issue you believe we may have missed let us know privately in a calm and constructive tone. Makes it better for everyone.