Chuckling Bill/Stealth

A Mystery Clock · December 29, 2014, 08:59:08 PM

I'll just toss this here, but Chuckling Bill is a little bit of a problem for stealthy characters. Accidentally clicking on him will immediately break stealth and he's so close to the exit hatch this will happen over... and over... and over.

I know that by being really really careful, taking all the time to turn the camera around and clicking on the hatch it's possible to walk out without that happening, but it's still pretty common to make that mistake, and sometimes it will completely screw you up for no valid IG reason.

Is it possible to move him from that particular spot?

manyscruples · December 29, 2014, 09:15:29 PM

He should knock people out of stealth when they even get close to him. It's kind of silly when people hover near people that could easily detect them by reaching out their arms.

Tala · December 29, 2014, 10:00:27 PM

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of stealth. I'd even like to see stealth being broke by opening chests/doors/hatches, cause it's a bit absurd someone is opens a door, you can see the door opens, but not who enters.

But it's NWN mechanics, and Stealth is pseudo-magic, I guess. So if there's something that makes it harder for people to abuse this mechanic in the Crone, I'm all for it.

Also, he's the bouncer of the Crone. Not sure where you want to put him if not right next to the entrance.

A Mystery Clock · December 29, 2014, 10:00:32 PM

We might be Jackie Chan good at dodging arms! And terrible at dodging eyeless deep spiders.

Edited, for Tala. Near the hatch, but slightly to the side? In this particular instance the hatch had already been opened by someone else, so "opening the hatch should break stealth anyway" does not apply to this particular issue.

VanillaPudding · December 30, 2014, 01:24:25 AM

Quote from: Tala;420487I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of stealth. I'd even like to see stealth being broke by opening chests/doors/hatches, cause it's a bit absurd someone is opens a door, you can see the door opens, but not who enters.

But it's NWN mechanics, and Stealth is pseudo-magic, I guess. So if there's something that makes it harder for people to abuse this mechanic in the Crone, I'm all for it.

Also, he's the bouncer of the Crone. Not sure where you want to put him if not right next to the entrance.

There is a large population of npcs not represented via character models in game. Stealth on EFU is said to be semi-magical, and add in the fact that people are coming and going that you do not actually see with a tangible NPC, then it becomes a little more clear.

manyscruples · December 30, 2014, 02:02:53 AM

Can someone please define "pseudomagical"?

Kotenku · December 30, 2014, 03:39:43 AM

Quote from: manyscruples;420523Can someone please define "pseudomagical"?

The idea is that Stealth is impossible to implement in a realistic way in NWN, so for situations where suspension of disbelief become strained (like the basis for this very suggestion), it's explained as stealth being magical in nature.

For example, where somebody with 40/40 stealth is undetectable in the middle of an uncrowded street in daylight, in Pen and Paper we would say "well, he's on a roof", there's no way to represent that in NWN, so we fudge the story a bit and, well, What You See Is What You Get.

A Mystery Clock · December 30, 2014, 11:02:20 AM

This wasn't meant to be a discussion about the legitimacy of stealth. As much as I remember, there's plenty elsewhere. Point is, Chuckling Bill's positioning makes exiting the Crone a rather clumsy business for stealthing characters (or if it's just me, tell me and I will shut up and just pay more attention :D).

Unethical · January 02, 2015, 01:38:26 AM

What you're describing as "legit stealth" is HIPS.

manyscruples · January 02, 2015, 01:51:17 AM

You probably shouldn't be stealthing/sneaking about in an NPC populated area without a DM at any rate.

Tala · January 02, 2015, 06:59:34 AM

Neh, you can stealth/sneak in NPC areas without supervision. Just be aware that someone might have enough skills to spot you (Both PCs and NPCs). As Kot and VP said, there is a large population of NPCs not represented with modules, so the idea of stealth in populated areas is that you mingle with the crowd.

As far as I'm aware, criminals and wanted people need DM Supervision to walk in Upper, Watchers/SG/Aux need DM to walk in main Lower / Crone. That goes for stealthing as well (unless I'm dead wrong, then feel free to correct me)

Halfbrood · January 02, 2015, 07:09:46 AM

I have never heard of this happening until now.

Corrigo · January 04, 2015, 12:38:41 AM

Frankly if this were actually a problem then it would also be a problem for nonstealth PCs, i.e. every PC would have trouble clicking on either the trapdoor or Chuckling Bill. Since I have never experienced or witnessed any inordinate degree of accidental conversations initializing with Chuckling Bill, it sounds like the scope of this problem is rather being exaggerated.

Talir · January 04, 2015, 01:23:01 AM

This is a non-issue. Locking thread.

Howlando · January 04, 2015, 07:38:32 PM

Stealth is pseudo-magical because very high stealth in EFU clearly depends upon a large degree of magic (camo spell, +hide/ms objects). Imagine for a moment that the spells and relics are assisting in magically obscuring a person's visibility. It's a combination of skill (artfully hiding under a table) and magic (a cloak that resembles a pool of shadow, or perhaps a ring that just makes it that much less likely you'll be noticed). Stealth has an important role to play in EFU and given the setting and a character that is presumably slathered with magical hiding things it's not unreasonable to suppose that they might not be noticed even if crouched close to another character.