The MMOisation of EFU

[Ladocicea]

Sincere thanks to those of you that have offered valuable insight into this. Some very interesting points.

[Blackthorn]

"Play your sheet" goes in several directions. A character with CHA 8 or INT 8 can learn to function properly in fields they do not have an aptitude for. This is represented by skill ranks.

 CHA 8 is an especially hard case to judge there, because it is only a -1 modifier on diplomacy tests. The utterly uncouth and horrid depictions of social outcasts that people sometimes seem to expect fit more with a CHA score of 4-6, which is reminiscent of a goblin or kobold, and only if they have zero ranks in social skills to compensate. For example, if one watches the character of, say, Richard Woolsey in Stargate, one has a decent depiction of CHA 8, who got fairly far in his respective organisation. Not because he was naturally gifted and personable, but because of hard work and training in the skillsets necessary to do his job. The same is true for any other stat. It's basically nature vs. nurture.

I absolutely love this.  I feel like you hit it spot on here, the things people expect from CHA 8, I do honestly believe are more appropriate of 4-6 considering 8 really is only a -1 penalty which would be described as "Slightly Below Average."  Also I am a massive SG fan so your comparison to Woolsey just struck a serious chord with me haha.  Thanks for that

[the gardener]

In regard to stats, EFU's position is well outlined by Mort here:

http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22883

8 on an attribute is = "Very Poor"

So as long as you are RP'ing that, its all good. And further outlined by Paha as:

... if you go below 10, it demands that you play it out some way. There is no excuse to just cut points and ignore them afterwards completely.

[Divine Intervention]

To address two of the most prevalent and oft repeated misconceptions, you do not need to spend all your time "preparing" for the next "big thing" and losing levels/loot is not really the end of the world.  I am sure many people will roll their eyes at this and say "Oh that's naive I need huge supplies or I risk dying to something, so I must quest all the time!!!".  As a player pretty much all of my most successful and incidentally high level characters died dozens of times doing risky stuff, yes it's annoying but spending all your time obsessively preparing to the extent of some crazy mountain man survivalist and draining any semblance of IC rationale or story progression in favour of this almost OCD level hoarding it is just counterproductive.  

Really losing experience/gold/loot as a consequence or being involved in dangerous things should only be a crushing experience if you define your character by these things as an end goal.

[Illuminus]

Alrighty, i'll leave my two cents.

As to people saying "Lets go do shagga", this is, in this wording, unacceptable. "lets go to shaggaland", or "lets go to the spider caverns" are OKAY in my opinion.

as to the Builds, i only know one person who is anything close to this, usually, there are completely different or at least have a few noticable changes. as to taking like, 1 level of X? I see no reason for this, as someone who deems himself mechanically proficiant, with the exception of MONK, for any other reason than IC background or development.  I personally do not, to my knowledge share in this with the possible exception of one app pc.

As to the "need" for questing, i'm frequently guilty of running and being a active part of the upper quest trains. Why? because, unless your a imp expertise fighter, being less than level five or six is really not a viable option for someone who is frequently outside of sanctuary, with its bubble of safety that a level 1 is safe in. Your going to run into a lot of deadly monsters, pvp is frequent, and a lot of class' just arent sustainable or "good" mechanically until five or six, this being said, if you want people to quest less, regardless of the Rp involved, i have a solution.

Eliminate, or vastly reduce, xp gained in quests. Instead, give a steady Xp tick until like level six, and have a lot of non-farming options to get to eight, ( like, say, more patrol spots for auxiliarys / agents, and for others, having simular things spread out everywhere?) so that is is viable to not have to quest to get a good level, or ever, if you've other methods to gain gear and gold.

instead, pc's would be going around the underdark / machine a lot more frequently, quest trains would be a lot less, xp wise, beneficial, and would generally be taking more time to do things other than quest.

Now, in regards to getting 7-8 in 1-2 days, this is not common, and if you do do it, its an impressive job, unless you have like 15 hours, a good quest group, and nothing else to do. It takes a lot lf effort to get into this, and hell, your probably going to die pretty quickly due to lack of gear, regardless.

As to wordless quest runs or generally not ryping a lot during a quest? well, i'm sorry, but i find it near immpossible to fight well and type complex setences at the same time. this goes for pvp, to. You cannot be clicking off the tool bar, moving around, aware of the situation and able to respond ina timely fashion, ( a few seconds at most, or it usually dosint matter), if your typing out [thrusts her sword into the gut of he beast, turning and hacking down!] or "watch out, there's a half a dozen coming!". While i might, and frequently do, risk dieing to type stuff out in quests, this is even more important in pvp.

For example, most often in my exerience, pvp is decided in a few rounds, if the opponents are not evenly matched. Each and every action counts, and not taking actions due to, usually, worthless ( mechanically) emotes is not an option when your pc's life / livelyhood is on the line. As such, I frequently work to subdue my opponents as fast as possible, then take the time, once i'm safe ( usually by blacking out and dragging to the nearest defendable place), to Rp out the consequences.

If you don't find this acceptable as a player, feel free to complain about it the next time your subdued, being full looted, or perma-killed.

Now, disclaimer!: I personally do not mind fighting and loosing pvp, and suffering the consequences in the form of loosing life or supplies. Thats how things work, just remember, /pvp karma does exist/.

Thats my two cents.

[SN]

There has been a dozen valid points made here that I will not repeat (and admittedly - I haven't read through this all as my time is scarce these days so I actually might repeat some of them:)).

Nonetheless, here's my impression / root causes of this behavior:

• Compared to EFU:A/M where I've spent a lot of time (life?) enjoying it, EFU:R is (feels?) cramped and extremely tiny. Doing a 'patrol' of non-city areas in EFU:R takes approximately an hour. While when you wanted to organize a 'trek' through EFU:A/M areas, it could take a couple hours. There's just really not that much to do on your own. Especially that with the very small amount of hostile spawns in areas, you just blaze through them.

I remember some of my upperdark/lowerdark treks with my druid on my own took me no longer than 20 minutes as there was literally nothing to interact with/kill/struggle against.

• EFU:R has intangible antagonist NPC's. H'bala/Barakat was something you could 'touch', they had this vibe of being alive. And you had the (illusion of) power of being able to change the course of things.

The Dread seem distant, something you can not touch/interact with without having your brain pour out of your nose ... and worse - they feel absolutely omnipotent and omniscient. I remember going through the screenshot thread of Sru Syishodel and their trek through Traensyr when the group met one of the Dread Masters. It felt absolutely hopeless - I can't think of almost any character that wouldn't just lay down and give up and have the illithid destroy them seeing the power.

Further on this point, there's no personalization of the antagonists. They are the Dread. They seem an undefined, vast group of extra-terrestrial, omnipotent villains, that eventhough being so close, they are just so far away that people just ignore them as they really aren't given another option.

Even when Withering was implemented in EFU:M and Mistlocke and the surrounding areas where the only safe one from the curse, it did not stop people from both being terrified and venturing out to struggle against the inevitable. And you could touch the 'minions' of the main antagonists there, too - you could go out and crush the endless hordes of H'bala's undead, you could descend underneath Nebezzdos and crush the Nightrisers and it created an illusion of actually doing something worthwhile / damaging to the antagonists. And without a need for DM attention too. In EFU:R, bar the occasional Dread-related spawns in the Lowerdark, there's really not much of the personalized 'enemy' anywhere.

• Safety - while admittedly I haven't spent much time playing Sanctuary PC's in EFU:R, the idea of the ultra-safe place where PC's can retreat to (the Shield) is - IMHO - immersion breaking. On one hand, the aim is to play in an apocalyptic, Lovecraftian setting.. and actually feel that TERROR... yet there can be no real TERROR if you can just retreat to Safety into this massive, ultra-safe agglomeration. It just kills the whole point of the struggle to survive, IMHO.

And then you have the Lower vs Upper conflict, where ‘Upper’ is again â€" the omnipotent entity with an army of Mech warriors and ability to gas the denizens of Lower.

And then you have the illusion rings â€" if PvP ensues and someone escapes to safety of Upper, it’s beyond the reach of 90% antagonist PC’s. Due to the power-level of Upper, due to not having the ring etc. In EFU:A during the massive PvP’s that happened between Docks/Ziggurat, those PvP’s often escalated into the streets of either of the ‘factions’.
In EFU:M, it happened VERY often that the PvP spread into Mistlocke. People didn’t feel the ultimate safety as they could have been snatched from the ‘square’ easily. Again, it’s not as simple in EFU;R as there are too many factors preventing that.

• Influx of new players - this is absolutely great and fantastic, but you have to keep in mind many of our new folks come from servers/places which aren't as heavily focused on the STORY (show me one that actually is..).

So they need guidance. From both players and the DM's. And it's not an attempt to put the blame on the new players - as they simply need to discover EFU on their own, find the mystery, find the DEPTH of the plot and fall in love with it.

• Supplies level - while limiting the number of supplies on quests was an intent to reduce the supplies level overall, it kind of didn't work out as it should.

First of all, being forced to 'trade' more through higher GP levels and lower consumable levels does not add to the immersion at all. 'Oh hey random brewer, get me 20 haste potions pls, i'll give you 4k gp'.

It reminds me of something I read a long time ago when I started to run PnP adventures - don't make your Players roll a dice if that roll is totally insignificant to affecting the story. Having to buy 'resources to survive' from other players is just that insignificant roll, IMHO. While it add to the sandboxiness of the server, it doesn't add to the story.

What I truly loved about EFU:A/M is that by going through several scripted quests, you got to L6/7 with ease and accumulated enough supplies in order to do what most PC's want to do - be the HERO. Once you had enough 'resources' in order to act as a Hero, then you did so - you held off hundreds of Orcs by chugging those cure serious/haste/displacement potions and actually had the time to emote being Heroic. And people will always want to be heroes, that's why they escape to the realm of roleplaying games, to be something that they aren't in real life (mind you, I can hold off a horde of wild orcs in real life too).

And then once you depleted those resources, you went out, crushed a bunch of quests, resupplied quick and could continue being all epic and heroic.

Now? It's a struggle. You have to calculate every decision in combat as a single bad decision is going to cost you dearly in terms of 'resources' - those 'rare' resources you been accumulating for a couple weeks can be gone with one bad decision. And then you have to go through that whole sandboxish feel again for several days/weeks to re-stock on your resources. Crushing quests that give you a couple moderate healing brews and maybe an occasional stat-boosting one or two .. and not that much XP either.

So it basically forces you to grind and grind and grind and grind and grind to be able to restock to the level with which most people feel comfortable when going on let's say - a heavy-combat oriented DM quest. Or those more difficult ones with bigger rewards.

In the end, people will chose those which are easy and give a decent reward - that is probably why you see those done repeatedly and repeatedly.

And while most if not all DM’s consider this a misconception â€" I disagree. People are not going to go out and fight a single hulk behemoth if they do not have the resources to do so. People are not going to stroll into the Lowerdark and fight beholders if they do not have resources to do so, period.

And LOSING XP/resources shouldnot be a big thing, however â€" it has been made into a big thing on EFU:R compared to the previous two chapters. Because it hurts so much more than it did previously.

IMHO â€" the setting’s settings enforce this behavior on people and that is what makes it counterproductive.

To use a an actual example â€" with the end-run of the Tulathek plot where the event was heavily focused on fighting Red Caps or whatever those Fey were â€" I was playing a character that was expected to be at the front of the advancing party â€" after first 5 minutes, I simply couldn’t anymore because I didn’t have the ‘resources’ to do so anymore.

• Risk-taking. With all the above points made, about safety and about the supply level and about the endless ‘grind’ with little/no reward, people are much less inclined to take risk.

Everyone gets attached to their characters and they don’t want to lose them.
Especially if they were ‘forced’ to grind for weeks to achieve a certain level of XP/’resources’.

• DM interaction â€" what I have witnessed lately (and this is not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, mind you â€" this is food for thought) is what VP mentioned. There seems to be little/no reward lately for what is commonly known as ‘DM spice’ and this â€" for me â€" combined with being forced to grind for days to achieve a certain level of supply â€" is extremely discouraging. If parties are undertaking large risks, pursuing the high end scripted quests even, and that quest already has a super-high challenge rating â€" then cranking up the difficult on it without giving the PC’s a reward at all is bad. Very bad. Because it results in the “The DM’s are trying to kill me” mindset and leaves a bitter and sour taste for days or weeks.
  
  
  
  
• Meta-plot(s) â€" there seems to be an extreme stagnancy with the ‘main’ plot which are the Dread. Again, Ysinode is so close but it seems so, so far away that you can’t even touch it. And players just begin to simply ignore it â€" and you can’t blame them for that either. So they fall into a different stagnancy â€" stagnancy of not having much to do other than just grind the quests endlessly.

Players need to pursue the meta-plots somehow. In EFU:A, not to look far â€" keys to H’bala’s tower. It was there, you knew it’s out there, you could go look for them for whatever reasons your PC might have had to collect them.

[/LIST]

All the above is food for thought, not an attack so please do not get on the defensive mode â€" read it and chew through it. I realize the VAST amount of time/effort being put into creating EFU and I do not discard all the sweat put into creating this.

What’s interesting is â€" over the past couple weeks I’ve spoken with numerous people, some newer players and some veterans and they all shared those notions/perceptions of what EFU began to become.

Hope this helps some :)

EFU4Lyfe.

[Random_White_Guy]

While a lot of good points have been made I feel like there's one aspect that people have been overlooking.

We've talked often about the PC and DM aspects of mechanics changes and otherwise but I'd like to take a moment to talk about my favorite part of EFU: The Story.

PC plots matter. In many posts people talk about how there's nothing to do at times so the best option is questing but these are the times when PC plots shine. Bored PCs create avenues and adventures and experiences in which PC plots develop and grow. Wandering the Underdark is dangerous but there's something visceral about a 3-man party of people scouting the badlands for "Signs of dread influence". The Machine is tedious at times but there's something amazing about wandering with a few PCs into the darkest corners and sharing thoughts, ideas, looking for scrap, and similar.

At the risk of sounding horribly cliche and lame a lot of the way to beat the MMOisation of EFU in my honest opinion is the suspension of disbelief. Stepping away from the fact we're playing a videogame and trying to lose yourself in the story like a good book. So many people get caught up on what 'Makes sense", what "Doesn't make sense", what would be viable for their character to do and similar.

EFU I have always thought thrived because I viewed it as a play. It's a spectacle. Bread and Circus. PCs get bored of questing so you go out of your way to craft something for them to put on display. This means your PC doesn't always make the "Best move". It's always viable to be friends with everyone but sometimes you're a horrible racist. Sometimes you cast off the idea of a pleasant deity for something twisted and disgusting like a Talonite to tell a story.

I'm not saying this is for everyone to pursue but there's PCs like Granny, like Necronomicon, and numerous others who go to great lengths to bring "Lfie" to the server through various villains and overtures of conflict. If you want to improve EFU stop doing what "Makes sense" and consider perhaps what could be fun for other individiuals. Play the greasy old hag. Play the obsessed necromancer. Play the Archaeologist who just so happens to spend most of his time collecting artifacts to woo fat women PCs and NPCs.

Don't have a PC who "Knows everything". Ask questions. Don't act like you've been there before. Suspend the fact you're on your 90th PC and enter the world with fresh eyes. Try and lose yourself in a character with the story telling aspect of the end of the world and one lone place of strange magics and odd people who prefer fight one another from the illusion of security against the notion of the end of the world.

Play a Worminger who decides it's time to get rich by becoming a merchant. Play a Swordsman who has realized unlike his wars on Orcs you can't beat the Dread by carving and becomes a hopeless alcoholic until his friends rally around him and encourage him to try the Society.

We can only bring to life to this server how much you bring to your character. Don't be afraid to get weird and don't be afraid to play something that gives people pause and makes them wonder what the fuck you're doing.

EFU is a show and we're all actors in my opinion. If you want to remove the MMOisation fo EFU then do what MMO's can't.

Craft and develop and tell the best and most amazing story you can, to as many people as possible, and matters will improve with or without DM assistance. It doesn't matter if that story leaves you beaten, robbed, dead, or broke. Roll a new PC and move on to a new story, for a different PC, for a different faction.

[Faux News]

• EFU:R has intangible antagonist NPC's. H'bala/Barakat was something you could 'touch', they had this vibe of being alive. And you had the (illusion of) power of being able to change the course of things.

The Dread seem distant, something you can not touch/interact with without having your brain pour out of your nose ... and worse - they feel absolutely omnipotent and omniscient. I remember going through the screenshot thread of Sru Syishodel and their trek through Traensyr when the group met one of the Dread Masters. It felt absolutely hopeless - I can't think of almost any character that wouldn't just lay down and give up and have the illithid destroy them seeing the power.

• Safety - while admittedly I haven't spent much time playing Sanctuary PC's in EFU:R, the idea of the ultra-safe place where PC's can retreat to (the Shield) is - IMHO - immersion breaking. On one hand, the aim is to play in an apocalyptic, Lovecraftian setting.. and actually feel that TERROR... yet there can be no real TERROR if you can just retreat to Safety into this massive, ultra-safe agglomeration. It just kills the whole point of the struggle to survive, IMHO.

And then you have the Lower vs Upper conflict, where ‘Upper’ is again – the omnipotent entity with an army of Mech warriors and ability to gas the denizens of Lower.

And then you have the illusion rings – if PvP ensues and someone escapes to safety of Upper, it’s beyond the reach of 90% antagonist PC’s. Due to the power-level of Upper, due to not having the ring etc. In EFU:A during the massive PvP’s that happened between Docks/Ziggurat, those PvP’s often escalated into the streets of either of the ‘factions’.
In EFU:M, it happened VERY often that the PvP spread into Mistlocke. People didn’t feel the ultimate safety as they could have been snatched from the ‘square’ easily. Again, it’s not as simple in EFU;R as there are too many factors preventing that.
[/LIST]

I actually think these two points are kind of important to address. The way the module is currently designed, one has to go out of their way to draw the ire of the Dread. If you encounter enthralled drow, you're either ballsy or stupid. You've fucked up. You're probably going to die. There are no dread patrols outside of their various strongholds. And yeah, I understand there's some IC reasons for why the Dread isn't so close to Sanctuary.

But I'm referring to areas where the Dread would have an influence. Traenysr is just a few miles (I think? that's what the emote says when you click the transition) away from the Badlands, but the Dread have no influence there. There are drow patrols, and orogs, and aberrants, but they're never Dread Empire brand drow or Dread Empire brand aberrants or even Dread Empire brand orogs. (true terror) I just remembered the Driders, but thematically they could probably use an 'enthralled' infront of their name for effect. When I see 'enthralled' anything my first response is to scream like a little girl and run far away.

If the Dread even had a slight bit more of a presence, harrowing bands of patrolling thralls and awful mind-boggling experiments roaming the landside looking for flesh to bring back to their masters, then the Shield would feel all the more necessary. Give people a reason to want to be safe. As it is, there's no reason to ever need the Shield to protect you from the Dread as you're not going to see any influence that they even exist unless you're really asking for it.

I'm not asking for players to run into/kill Mindflayers. That'd be stupid. I understand their importance as a storytelling device that killing them be largely left off the table for now, and encountering them equaling death and despair but their minions are quite numerous and expendable.

Occasionally just make it so the Dread peek their head around and make everyone shit themselves a little bit without necessarily the need for a DM to possess them as the NPCs are super tough as it is.

Also, the Shield can be a pretty large liability, as much so as it is a boon. If you're hostile to Sanctuary and you have a ring you can enter from the Illusion into any point in the City and do foul, evil deeds. The issue is that people need to actually sack up and do it, as it's a very intimidating proposal.

This need for bravery also goes with the Upper vs Lower 'Upper is too strong!' mindset, as well. I've been there. I've felt that. It's actually not the case, you can fight these guys. Now moreso than ever, I'd think. It's a risky proposition to do so, but the Refinery, House of Heroes, and Wayfinder Hall didn't bomb themselves so clearly it's been done and the DMs are more than willing to accommodate for it.

EDIT: I forgot that it'd make going outside the Shield period a more risky proposition, possibly encountering some fatal murderous Dreadband, and it'd likely make Entrallment Testing a more common procedure which is always a cool thing because it plays into the thematic paranoia involved in the setting that most people tend to disregard.

[Hound]

Totally irrelevant point here, but concerning the Maze quest;

Howland actually said in 2013 it was fine to recall prior knowledge from doing that quest.

[Kinslayer988]

SN's post is everything I want to say and more right now

[A Mystery Clock]

I will add a few things, with the premise that I -do- like EFU, mainly because of how merciless it is and how much actions and achievements matter, leading to pretty dramatic storytelling. I have also noticed a consistent attempt on behalf of DMs to try and help RP oriented "builds" gain some sort of edge.

My premise is that d&d and the d20 system is essentially flawed in itself, and oftentimes leading to factors that cripple RP by shutting it behind the constrictive cage of stats and mechanics. It is an excellent system if you want to play a strategic game (which is precisely where d&d comes from, folks!) but not so much if you enter a canovaccio or theatrical mindset, where the main focus is the play or story and not whether you hit or miss that hobgoblin.

If d&d rules were employed in good stories, imperial stormtroopers would statistically hit Luke and kill him, Indiana Jones would take 4d20 dmg on a failed tumble roll for hopping out of the cafe's window in the temple of doom, Long John Silver would die due to AC/dex penalties and reduced movement speed, Ulysses would most likely have to PVE Polyphemus and get a cool pair of giant's strength gloves.

NWN -is- mechanical. Very much so. While I agree with RwG in employing the Rule of Cool, there are several reasons why this can't be applied most of the time:
# 1 monsters (and DM spawns as far as I've seen) do not care and will just crush you to bits.
# 2 there's a strong focus on conflict, even when forcing conflict does absolutely not pertain that character or situation.
# 3 conflict on EFU is largely (exclusively?) handled through pvp, be it direct or indirect, soon or late. I have been on extremely harsh and unforgiving servers where death was handed like candy without a need for overseeing DMs. You could poison your enemies, and a puny, unequipped lvl 4 could trick a lvl 8 badass loaded with gear, stab his back through emoting and summary rolls when his guard was down and circumstances allowed it and steal all his stuff. I was somehow disappointed to apprehend that you can't poison targets on EFU and kill them that way.

The chain works this way: conflict is seen as the most important element of the story, but it makes little sense in this setting to promote inter-character conflict as every character with at least 10 int would eventually wonder whether it's smart to kill what little is left of humanity and then die to the dread. Aside from being somehow immersion breaking, conflict and killing on EFU will very often encompass pvp, expecially if you are a villain. PVP 100% relies on mechanics on EFU. To achieve mechanical power, you need a good build and good supplies. To achieve both you need to powerbuild/minmax to an extent and quest to gather XP, gold and supplies. To do so, since you can't quest on your own past a certain level due to OOC mechanics, you need to gather a party. It is almost impossible to gather a hunting party on EFU without being somewhat inclusive, or very hard if you play characters that are loners by their very nature/circumstances.

Summing up, conflict is the focus of efu, and to further conflict you will have soon or late to be involved in PVP. If you do not possess enough mechanical prowess, it will be hard if not impossible for you to play the cool, conflict based characters everyone loves and praises, and thus involve others in what on EFU seems to be largely perceived as interesting roleplay. It is an unpleasant tendency, but leaders are very often leaders because they possess a certain degree of combat prowess, empowered by RP. Not very often people will follow a smart but weake leader when there's an average but strong leader around, no matter how high your cha score is and how well it's roleplayed.

A possible solution would be to somehow even out the chances of survival between levels/different degrees of gear. As it is, a powerbuilt/high level/well equipped character will always have the upper hand and always win the fight against its RP build, badly equipped counterpart. Push to make conflict a matter of RP rather than rolling dices and how awesome my build is, and you probably don't want to join us because your stats aren't any good and you should roll another PC.

This is precisely what I lamented while playing Sumah (and I was wrong). Like it or not, while EFU has its great sides and whenever things start rolling they feel extremely entertaining, it is a server that strongly encourages repetitive grinding/resources hoarding, gathering large parties, conflict by pvp, a degree of OOC organization (just look at all the guilds that are born through OOC discussion, there's even a section about it... IRC channels and all that jazz) strength by knowledge of often obscure mechanics such as alchemy and down to basic things like swimming and tactics etc.

Of course there are ways around it. Of course, if you hate spending three hours killing spiders and chugging potions you can push plots and even turn into a villain while being a puny level four, but it takes somewhat crafty players and a much greater effort than simply rolling a cheesebuild and adding good roleplay on top of it.

Suggestions:
- promote/allow/suggest other ways to resolve conflict (PVP or PVE) that do not rely exclusively on direct mechanical combat. It doesn't always add to the story.
- even the gaps between PCs in a way that doesn't rely on DM loot, so that the hoarder/powerbuilder/grinder will not have such a huge edge/larger field of RP choice over "vanilla" roleplayers
- promote conflict wisely, as the current setting calls for an "us vs them" kind of behaviour, us being [insert sentient beings trustable enough to forge an alliance] vs the Dread/Dendar/Red Star/Global cataclysm. It's fine if you think mass murder will resurrect your god and save us all, stops making sense when it turns into "let's kill them for the lulz".
- JUST DON'T CARE. Stories where the main character always wins are simply not fun. Stories where the main character always loses are entertaining in a sort of poetic way. Stories where a bit of both happens are great. Give it a try.

Oh, and...

Schooling new players: Yes please. It's often hard to understand what exactly is important to do on EFU, or even how things work. Everyone seems to know everyone else and to know all the secrets concerning how to get by, or which pals to bump to to this or that. As far as I see pushing conflict between players OOCly is one thing, making a story interesting, intriguing and coherent another. IMHO the former is one of the possible tools of the latter, but the making of a good story does not exclusively pivot or flatten on conflict. Also, conflict tends to happen spontaneously for IG reasons even in "let's be FRIENDS" kind of settings.

Also the general tone of the discussion seems to suggest it's a given that "new players" are somehow coming from a tradition of WoW or similar grind oriented games who suddenly decided to move on to RP instead of sticking to MMOs. I'm brand new and I come from a decennial tradition of NWN, and a lifetime or roleplay and storytelling in every form and shape, including the creation of a story oriented roleplay system. Seeing new players as game-ruining brats who don't know what's what doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere.

I thoroughly agree with SN (inconsistent dread), RwG's Rule of Cool, Vlaid, Pandip (everything you said, really).

[Hound]

Honestly-

Lots of people complaining about the immersion issues of villainy in this thread seem to indicate that it is some sort of innate common sense to not murder each other on the brink of extinction.

Judging from human history alone, this is the opposite of the case. Desperation begets violence, because people no longer feel they have the time or luxury of trying to persuade others to follow their point of view.

[Maximum Xas]

# 3 conflict on EFU is largely (exclusively?) handled through pvp, be it  direct or indirect, soon or late. I have been on extremely harsh and  unforgiving servers where death was handed like candy without a need for  overseeing DMs. You could poison your enemies, and a puny, unequipped  lvl 4 could trick a lvl 8 badass loaded with gear, stab his back through  emoting and summary rolls when his guard was down and circumstances  allowed it and steal all his stuff. I was somehow disappointed to  apprehend that you can't poison targets on EFU and kill them that way.

The chain works this way: conflict is seen as the most important element  of the story, but it makes little sense in this setting to promote  inter-character conflict as every character with at least 10 int would  eventually wonder whether it's smart to kill what little is left of  humanity and then die to the dread.

Both points are pretty big. If you look closely, the Spellguard are basically the Zhentarim under Manshoon to a T, but without a viable IC reason to oppose them that cannot be countered by "You're insane, you're going to kill us all", because they have a monopoly on the safety MacGuffin. So while you have only one monopoly on not dying to the Dread Empire, you're basically forced on a very narrow path. How to fix it is by, somehow, breaking that monopoly.

So I'm just going to toss this out there, since I'm new and have no clue if it's a viable thing or not:

Is it possible to re-engineer or steal the Shield technology and create your own?

[SN]

I'll add something that might sound possibly controversial/ungrateful but it's not meant to sound this way:

Less scripted content, more DM-ran plot-related content.. plots.. you know what I mean.

While I know it's convenient to have the content scripted, in turn - scripted content takes away the soul.

What I had a crush on during the previous EFU chapters was simply going around the server and suddenly encountering something random - a 10-15 minute long DM encounter (whether it was possession of an NPC or just some ambient messages) that kind of played on my current character's alignment/class/perception of the world yadda yadda.

[Reylathi]

Honestly-

Lots of people complaining about the immersion issues of villainy in this thread seem to indicate that it is some sort of innate common sense to not murder each other on the brink of extinction.

Judging from human history alone, this is the opposite of the case. Desperation begets violence, because people no longer feel they have the time or luxury of trying to persuade others to follow their point of view.

Not to derail the thread, but this is a topic of great interest to me.

Our history books are filled with violence because it's the exception to the norm, and thus worthy note, rather than something endemic to our race. I agree that desperation does tend to further it, but I don't think you're taking into account all the countless people that have just quietly starved to death in history's many famines. While PCs are certainly not peasants, the point remains.

Especially in our setting, where even the gods are dying, I think you're going to find a larger number of people abandoning their own dogmas and egos in favor of the adaptations necessary for their survival. I would expect to see the vast majority of non-CE characters operating in a more cooperative sense by necessity. After all, if there's one thing about humans, is that they're capable of very rapid change in behavior on both an individual and a social level.

Our setting is extremely similar to the setting of the "real world" in  the Matrix movies. And just like in Zion, while everyone didn't  necessarily all get along and agree with each other, when faced with a sentinel for every man, woman and child, they did what they had to do.

Most exceptions, I think, are going to stem from the multiracial nature of Sanctuary. Humans are renowned for adaptability, dwarves and elves, not so much.