The MMOisation of EFU

[Stone Jam]

To put it really simply, there has been an influx of new players on the server in the last nine months or so that simply don't seem to "get" EfU.  

I wouldn't say that. From what I've perceived, it's peculiarly influential players with the MMO mindset that are passing down their way of doing things to the new and old accounts who interact with them. This starts to spread virally. The most powerful, visible, and effective questing machines are those who propagate the behavior Ladocicea described. It is extremely rewarding to fall in with them. They are more available and accessible than the traditional characters of EFU.

The easiest way to resolve this is the most direct one. Step civilly out of the hands-off enforcement role of the dungeon master. Pull players aside, explaining what they are doing in stark conflict with the principles of EFU. Once they're warned, OOC measures like deducting experience can be instituted if they continue the inappropriate behavior.

Approached courteously and made to understand, they can only be expected to stop. The indirect corrections historically used by this server may not be the best choice in this case.

[putrid_plum]

It would be nice to see DM factions more full, this could spur conflict and interactions.  Perhaps if it wasn't so hard to get into them?  Not everyone is an app expert or good at writing / explaining goals?  Or they have a rep that instead of giving the players a chance to show / prove a change it's denial fest on apps?  I don't know.

I do agree with some of what Lado says, some I don't.  Bottom line is just look to this as a game.  Enjoy it!!  Don't worry too much about if you're pleasing a DM or player 'X'.  Don't make PCs just to PvP or PCs just to crush quests endlessly.  In the end this is a RP server.  Try and mix it up, think about your PC when you are creating it, your build, your stats, if it makes sense or not.

EFU is about playing a game with a community which hopefully are somewhat your friends.  Make a story, play out your story, make it fun for you and others.  This includes PvP, RP, Quests, everything.  If you think it could be 'lame' it just might be.

[Ironside]

You know I think StoneJam you make some fine points - if select older players aren't taking steps to acclimate newer players into the real meat of EfU and instead opting to crush up to whatever mechanical level they need to rake in the rewards/loot/prestige that comes with that, then they are contributing to the "MMOisation" just as well.

It falls on all of us to do a bit of self-critique and make the adjustments that need to be made - and maybe direct DM one-to-one conversations are desirable in regards to achieving that.  Though I will say this puts a lot on the DMs and some people will not take kindly to this sort of direct criticism; but on the flip-side maybe those people aren't a good fit for EfU.  "EfU is not for everyone" after all.

[whiterabbit]

The fault can be shared fairly equally.

As a ranking Watcher, I don't think I've been spending enough time molding our "recruits" into being proper Watchers - although some have been excellent of their own merits.  The Watch is an excellent way for new players to learn about the server, and being a Watch officer is great chance to show them how EFU can be played actively without constant questing - if we're doing our jobs right.  I myself should probably be implementing quotas or asking people why they haven't turned in a single fine in weeks, or asking them what the last charge they handed out was.

For you newer players, reading this thread, I'd love to have you in the Watch.  Give it a shot.  It's actually a lot of fun walking around Sanctuary with an air of authority, and busting people's balls.  If the Watch isn't for you, try another faction.  Roll an Auxiliary and have HDM's Skalarius show you the ropes.

-Gracken/Goate/Whiterabbit

[Pandip]

EFU and its established scripts and systems seem to reward the unfortunate practices that Lado describes more than they don't.

• Powerful item sets require multiple items to drop from a single quest.



• Questing isn't rewarding without an optimized group with a proper distribution of tanks, damagers, and buffers to take on the content with the least amount of supplies used.



• Anyone who understands how to powerbuild their character is going to play a fighter/rogue that handily outshines pure fighters and pure rogues simultaneously.



• Spice is difficult and requires mechanical know-how; smart thinking and good roleplay rarely outweigh a good build and strong supply of useables when you're faced with a scythe-wielding maniac who has a 3d6 sneak attack.



• PvP has become especially prevalent in EFU:R and is usually the first answer people resort to when any kind of conflict emerges. People who understand how to game EFU have higher levels, more supplies, and typically a slew of IC and OOC friends who they helped get to level 8+ that are always willing to take their side no matter the circumstances. They are inevitably going to win most PvP.

This is understandable, of course -- nobody wants to run boring spice or easy content that isn't challenging. But NWN is ultimately a mechanical game and the people that Lado describes focus solely on mechanics, which puts them ahead of the curve more often than not. This creates a chain effect that surges throughout the player base. People want to get to the highest level possible to assert their strength on the server when PvP or DM content occurs. They have to compete with mechanically proficient people with OOC friends that are outright better than them at getting higher levels and more supplies. It's cyclical. And while you might argue that if you're not good at PvP conflict then you should make a concept that doesn't focus too much on fighting, the fact of the matter is that most server-wide events are usually related to PvP or DM content and the amount of conflict that is resolved through PvP appears to have increased drastically in EFU:R.

The flagrant power builds that we've all been guilty of utilizing from time to time diminish the prestige of PRC's that are less mechanically ideal. If people want to excel, they can do so by creating some combination of fighter, rogue, bard, barbarian, and ranger -- and probably be much better than a pure fighter who spends months struggling to become a weapon master, even after he's achieved his goals and gained the PRC. Perhaps it's time for multiclasses to be app only, because they vastly out shine their pure counterparts.

Sanctuary is also stagnating in its safety and seems to promote a friendly man atmosphere. It's everybody against the Dread, which is a threat that is rarely actually felt by the denizens of Sanctuary despite the fact that it is supposed to be an overwhelming and indeed dreadful aspect of the world we live in. Inter-faction conflict seems sparse at best and limited to political red taping and harsh words. People just band together, hold hands, do their quests, and collectively fight whatever threats spring up in a very "us versus them" witch hunting mentality.

Sometimes it feels like there's nothing to do but quest, which is a troubling predicament that leads to the dreaded town square afkers. Players don't seem to be doing much, don't appear to have personal agendas that they're trying to achieve. And even when some opportunistic fellow springs up in Sanctuary or Lower or even the wilds, the response that people offer feels lukewarm at best and outright belligerent and hostile at worst. Nobody has been particularly receptive to new ideas that go against the grain and this has arguably discouraged the efforts of people who might normally be interested in stirring up the pot.

This is obviously a large issue that the players themselves have to learn to deal with and adapt from, both old and new, but I will say this of the DM team -- if you want players to do something other than quest, give them an incentive to do it and a reward for sticking with it. Questing is just better. Make it so that isn't the case anymore.

A couple (hopefully constructive) comments to the DM team:

• There are a lot of DM-driven plotlines that have been going on lately, and while that's awesome to see, these are typically things that can't be pursued with much vigor unless a DM is online or participating. I obviously don't have the capacity to see what's going on behind the scenes and under the hood, but from my perspective, seeing more player inspired plots and conflicts that are making the server more interesting be supported more heavily would be nice.



• From a player's perspective, wordless spice sucks. It feels like a punishment, especially if someone dies, because then the grind to quest starts all over again. Receiving a reward that supersedes lost levels or missing supplies is almost always more exciting to receive than an extra stack of CSW. Having spice with a story or some interaction with the player characters is usually better than an extra dozen kobolds or what have you.



• I think someone mentioned this earlier in the thread, but: Getting 50, 100, 250, or even just 500 xp ticks for DM content or good roleplaying or whatever else is generally underwhelming compared to snagging a smooth 2k+ from doing all the quests relevant to your level. Again, if you're genuinely not content with the amount of questing crushing that's being done, you need to give incentives to the people who are making an effort to do something else to continue to stir things up for the other players.
  

[j235]

If quest-grinding's so rampant, why don't we simply put a limit on those highly-rewarding ones? Say, only once per every seven resets for Sahuagins', once per every eleven resets for Shaggaland's, and once per every thirteen resets for Seer's?

Also, it might help label characters based on their based hub. And limit the quest they can do based on the label. This can prevent people rushing through all upper/lower quests in a single run. However, a system should also be in place to add more labels to the characters so that as they complete some of those low-level quests, opportunities would then be then open for some other quests. In this way, we've got a real quest train, not in the sense that people can rush it through, but the upstream of the chain authorizes the down stream in a gradual and acceptable manner.

This would then mean, you will have to build a database for such labels, and counters for per-character quest completion, which I assume is already in place for quests like Bilby's.

And on multi-classing, being rather long on the server, I found no incentive in multi-classing myself. However, I remember back in Mistlocke days, we have special quests for classes, and even now. Tighten up class restriction in quests would also be an incentive towards such. Maybe, something like, allow ONLY pure rogues for Bilby's? You would then have to apply a label to those Bilby questers resetting their experience points when they try to multi-class. For a quest like Bilby's, upping the required level for the quest should also help.

And plot-wise, remember how Owain's managed to stir up inter-character conflicts again when he proved himself just to be another madman? Maybe something can happen to the Society to stir us up...

Another idea is, probably sticking more quests to dangerous places like, near Ysinode? People won't power-quest a quest that requires you to go through ten bloated undead beholder in the way, say. Or in other words, this can also translate into, "the current wilds are not dangerous enough." Of cource, it won't be realistic setting up beholder spawns everywhere, and so close to the main hub, but we have driders, undead giants, super-duper spirits! The quest bubbles need better guardians, hahahah.

Also, since quests might reward a well-coordinated group, how about breaking them up with small, random, once-per-player-per-reset only explorables? Give them incentive for solo-once-in-a-lifetime experience in walking alone in the wilds will break the grouping up somewhat.

If people get less reward from quests, they would have to seek it elsewhere, such as real inter-character conflicts.

[Subtle]

I'll just put in my two cents.  A lot of you all talk about no inter faction conflict as a problem here.  I'd just like to say that given the setting competing factions in Upper makes no IC sense.  Just about every humanoid race is on the brink of extinction and most of us think of Sanctuary as our last stronghold for survival.  Why would people want to destroy their last hope for the survival of their species other than for "the evuls"?  There's just no need or reason for the factions to not cooperate.  But EFU has always been a " times are grim right now... better start killing everyone " kind of server.  The setting has always been getting progressively darker and more dire in tone.  Now though I get a strong feeling that the setting's message is "unite or die".  I just feel that we need reasons and rewards for fostering conflict and player initiative IC as well as OCC.

[Reylathi]

Nice to see some people pointing out the influence the setting itself has.  Being post-apocalyptic, EfU absolutely has an us versus the world  feeling to it. With the possibility that the Dread could come knocking  any time, it just makes sense that all the main institutions of  Sanctuary would remain on at least a cooperative, professional  relationship. Maybe even civil. Even the denizens of Lower wouldn't be  blind to their danger. Throw in a stable two party elective government  split liberal/conservative, and yeah, I can see Sanctuary-based faction  conflict being difficult to stir up and impossible to keep going beyond a  very low simmer. Personally I don't mind it, it's an interesting  atmosphere. I can see how it might get stale to someone who's played  more though.

Regarding the original points, I'd like to address  quest grinding, as I've done it a lot. If you randomly picked one of the  mighty upper Sanctuary daily-running quest crushing freight trains of  the past six months, odds are fairly decent one of my PCs was a regular.  Confessions of an EfU grind-a-holic if you will.

The reason I  did it was twofold. First, for the longest time I just didn't know what  else to do. Just like reality, it can be a very cliquish place, and it's  not the easiest thing to break into. Scripted quests on the other hand  are very accessible, and doing them en masse is a really fast way for my  PC to make friends.

Second, it was always the most rewarding  thing I could spend my time doing, both IC and OOC. My character was  intentionally practicing his skills, making money, and if he was a hero  type, helping people at every available opportunity. It's just what he  would do. There is that OOC aspect, though, difficult to escape. If you  want to have a strong character, a character that can personally  influence the course of EfU events /on the battlefield/, it seems to me  that you have to quest relentlessly. You need to be high level, but more  importantly, you need good gear. And the only way to get good gear is  to make enough money to buy it, or to quest enough to get it the good  stuff when it drops.

I don't do it so much anymore, as I no  longer really desire a battlefield hero type character. But I suppose  there's a third reason. When you get that really perfect group together,  the innate, constantly threatening, brimming-with-danger atmosphere  that EfU has makes it so unbelievably satisfying to just steamroll half  of it. And you'll draw the attention of a dm more often than usual,  which makes the fun quotient skyrocket. (for me at least, some quest  grinders understandably dislike spice) And if you all had so much fun  with it on whatever night, may as well do it again every night you can,  until the party eventually falls apart.

I think the best way to  combat the grinding mentality is to reward other activities more  heavily. And not just plot centric ones or events of great import, as  that stuff is hard to break into. Modest rewards for small acts of RP  like drinking in the tavern as you reminisce with your buddies,  explaining things to a bewildered orange cloak or heckling an elf in the  square with your dwarf would help soften the drive to constantly quest  for gain by giving the impression that xp can come from anything and at  any time, so long as it's played well.

I'm also under the  impression that PC storage is prohibitively expensive. I think more  accessible storage for PC merchants would help them have more fun and do  a little better, leading to increased flow of gold and usable gear and  thus indirectly reducing the need to quest. Especially if the gold  couldn't be stored and had to be carried. Once a few PC merchants are  thoroughly established, profitable and having fun with their characters,  it'd be cool to see a greater economic side emerge to the game, with  merchants acting as middlemen between adventurers bringing alchemical  ingredients and PC alchemists turning them into products. Now your  alchemist's super secret recipe that almost killed him five times to  discover becomes a real goldmine that doesn't require financial acumen  and entrepreneurial spirit to take advantage of.

Regarding people now say "Let's do ". e.g. "Let's do Shagga", in character ...

I  think it's the job of the playerbase to police this one. I've sent  tells reminding people of server rules before, and I've been sent tells  reminding me of others. A lot of times it's a newbie who actually  doesn't know them yet. This is a particularly important rule for  maintaining immersion though, and I think it falls on all of us to  gently encourage people to rein in this kind of behavior.

That was a lot longer than I thought it would be...

[VanillaPudding]

Alright, I have more time now so I'll give a proper response to the directly stated issues at hand.

Taking only 1 level of rogue, barbarian, bard or sorcerer in a manner that is extremely convenient for your build. While this is not against the rules it is cheese, especially if there is NO conceptual rationalisation for doing this, and with astounding regularity (every single case) I have found that there is no discernible IC reason for doing so.
Obtaining level 7 under 24 hours, and level 8 shortly thereafter (yes, it happens).

I like to think of myself as rather mechanically sound, and thus the mentioned THING of taking one level in a class to benefit a person is oddly ironic to me. In fact, in most cases I would actually see this is detrimental when compared to staying pure and receiving a level 8 perk (we'll get to level 8 shortly). However, with a recent comment of your own in a less public place stating your dislike for "cheesey" bard builds, I can only assume that the hatred stems from the Drayden/Nuberius build (lol that they are "famous"). Effectively, even in that case, you have a 4/1 ratio on class building, which is a bit off in terms of the EFU level range but not terribly absurd really.

Instead of placing blame, let's ask ourselves what induces the idea of "power builds" and makes people feel as if they need to utilize them. You have massively dangerous settings for the level range, utilize what are effectively immortal NPCs -everywhere- in the module to drive your own story, and have implemented a series of quests that are rather dangerous to not "optimal" groups and reward little. All the while you are asking players to be proactive and antagonistic, and yet even the setting design does not support general play beyond Upper Sanctuary / Stewards. Instead of complaining that people are adapting, I would propose a few changes -

- Adjust lower sanctuary to actually support some of the player base. Moving a rock and having a quest to help random Ibrandul church just doesn't quite cut it, and leads to another issue in this realm of thought, which is the old complaint of "antagonists get to 8 before they pvp". Well, they have to.

- Make the lower end quests a little more rewarding, and reduce the trash(to be blunt) drops in all quests. No one is going to use half of the toolset bloat that is dropping on the quests. That isn't "powergaming" or anything negative, it's just logic.

- Smooth out the transition to the "high end" quests so that people don't NEED to be so supplied just to witness what I personally believe to be the highest quality quest designs on the server. No one is running off to kill Sahuagin with cure minor wound trinkets and one blur potion. This leads to >

- stop nerfing the fun shit that people gravitate towards. As the whole theme of this post suggests, just because a large amount of people are doing it does not mean that it is bad (in some cases it is, and those I agreed with!), it means that it is attractive. Build off of that rather than stifle it. It won't hurt your setting to let people enjoy more scripted content more EASILY, but it obviously does hurt it to enforce this grind mentality that is complete your own choice and not the players.

- You have your ooc checks in place, you have your big NPCs that truly can't be replaced by the mob or even a player, and that is just how it should be, but to expand the "sand box" feel is not a bad thing and would only promote what you want to see. We don't want to be just agents in the reformed spellguard, we want to strive to be operatives and, even more, and SHAPE what the agents below us do or can do(for example) We want to be able to claim turf and expand on that as groups (grow that lair system, it's fucking amazing!), we want to be able to accomplish shit without bothering you too much, but we have what you give when it's all said and done.

Playing the same character/build over and over, or having alts with the same build as your main, with no discernible difference in concept or character or the manner in which you roleplay them. This also ties in with groups of OOC friends whose many different PCs all somehow know each other ICly and help one another out.

The first part I can't really comment on as I don't see builds or who is playing what secret account today. That is indeed an issue though. The second portion is just kind of silly. This is a video game and community, we are here to have fun and play with what friends we've made and those whom we can play with. I can understand it being an issue if entire groups are just recycling characters as they die and effectively doing the same thing, but I don't believe that I have witnessed that.

If you are asking me/EFU to stop playing with people we enjoy playing with, or people who we share playtime with, then the answer is a "no".

Doing the same quest every reset/tirelessly grinding with no real purpose.
While I've not personally witnessed this one, I'm reliably informed that people now say "Let's do ". e.g. "Let's do Shagga", in character. This also ties in with the increasingly brazen manner in which people organise quest parties ICly, with tanks telling mages what spells to prepare, as if they're some arcane genius themselves, when they usually have stats as mentioned below, which I definitely have witnessed.

Disturbing indeed, but if we dig deeper we will often find the issue of players lacking mechanical ability trying to play a new class. Instead of utilizing tells or OOC chatter, I have witnessed many ASK what they might prepare to help out the group or whatnot. Responding to that ICly is great because we are, after all, supposed to be playing rather adventurous characters that have EXPERIENCE in said circumstances.

  I trust that even you, as an average person lets say, learned a few things in your life beyond your chosen field of study. I assume that you sometimes cook food and aren't a chef, and learned from watching a others do it perhaps? I assume that you know mixing baking soda and vinegar can make a really cool volcano, even though you aren't a chemist? It's the same shit, and my fighter probably KNOWS about the existence of magical flame on his sword and that it benefits him swinging it, even if he's mouth breathing the whole time.

Creating characters with 8 INT, 8 WIS and 8 CHA (yes, this happens), and then not roleplaying those stats in a satisfactory manner.

Punish them then. You have the ability to REDUCE XP with some wand for poor role play, utilize it for 3 seconds and then spend your energy on shit you actually enjoy. Instead, as I mentioned earlier, it appears as if a lot of time and energy is being spent on otherwise shitty "spice" a a punishment, and things like that are sure to leave a terrible taste in the mouth of players. I guess the choice is up to you on how you want to spend your time, but it seems inefficient to waste effort on creating "evil wizards" and slinging around level 8 spells while trying to conceal the real agenda. Add in the irony of not roleplaying and you can't help but wonder why the very things you are complaining about have become the status-quo.







In summary, if you want more players to "get it" and more players to break the mold then you have to start supporting the ones that do and teaching the ones that do not. ShadowCharlatan loves to tell everyone that EFU is not a democracy, and that is great and just how it should be, but that also leaves more of the responsibility in your own hands. You can't just ignore the fact that the setting you created has caused this shift in behavior from people, and while I suppose you can just stomp your feet and be bitter like the old me, well, we all learned that doing that shit doesn't get anyone anywhere good.

Support players and player groups beyond the normal, support your movers and shakers, assign some more hotkeys into giving out chunks of XP for roleplay (EVEN ON QUESTS, and ESPECIALLY ON PVP) and you'll find that this whole situation reverses itself rather swiftly, as the "flock" will begin to follow the people having the most fun and success.

[efu1984]

Communicate with players.

Call-out threads and irc tirades just make people defensive, and rightly so. If you are seeing things that you consider negative then talk to the players, one on one. Be polite, be constructive. Then incentivise what you would like to see. Maybe some people won't get it, but most will, and it will work a hell of a lot better than harboring secret shit-lists or 'spice' that has no purpose other than FDing people.

[efuincarnate]

IMHO-Quests, and doing quests, is not a bad thing. They are there to be done.  Every reset, if your heart desires. Grind til you drop. IT is part of the game. A fun part. IT is a video game, not an improv group or theater troupe.. IT is not the entire game., and it could be a hell of an improv group or theater troupe, perhaps should be to some extent.(That is sarcasm, it must be, part of what makes this place special)

Meta gaming quests, not rping while running them, optimizing parties, spells, etc for each specific quest, without any ic reason to it, min/maxing stats with no other reason then it is strongest, taking multiclass levels with no back story that makes no sense other then I can crush now, and so on. These are the things I think lado's post spoke most too. I have been at one time or another , guilty of all of them. Hopefully alot less last few years.

But.. A prime example, and easy to illustrate- The Maze quest.  Without being spoilrific (thou I doubt at this point it is, as all seem to know of X) do NOT insist on bringing X, do not mention bringing X, as you have never done the quest (per the standards of the server regarding meta gaming), you have no idea that X is needed.   Now, if you have X because your a well prepared tunnel crawler survivalist, grand. IF you use the spell of whatever regardless because it is simply wise, fabulous!!!    Hell, if you have 5 of x for the same reason..fantastic.  Once the proverbial shit hits the fan, help your party out! But for all that is good and righteous in the world, RP while you do it!  Now substitute X for whatever defeats Quest blah blah..and you have the idea. Honestly, we all forget sometimes IC that we have not done quest whatever- so a simple IC conversation before a party heads out, about basic needs on ANY expedition might alleviate a lot of the angst? I do not think being prepared is wrong or bad form. This is a RP server, though, so reaching that point of preparedness should be part of the process, rather then a TS server FPS style chat in the text window. Rather then " Lets go do Shaga, and hit spiders on the way back, get alot of herbs tho, k, cause magick ain't worth shit on that island". That was heard  in character. That is almost a quote.

DM involvement is cyclical. Player involvement is cyclical. PVP is cyclical. It comes and goes. Faction vs Faction conflict is cyclical.  The things in this post http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81338  are not, and should never be cyclical...Or whatever VP says..you still owe me PVP lessons!

Full disclosure. I complained to the DM staff,  about alot of the things in Lados post. Last week. I am a casual player, as in work dictates my play. I am average? to Mediocre at roleplay., and horrible at mechanics.  I never plan beyond level 6, because level 7 is nirvana, and 8 unobtanium.  I try to always take the game in stride, it is a game, in the end.  Ask any DM if you want a good laugh, to look at my xp chart. Looks like the grand canyon most months.  But if these issues got to me enough that I took the time to write to the  DMS, and again take time out to post here... There is definitely a challenge to be overcome.  This forum seems like a fine way to do it.

[Wild Card]

I really hope to god this isn't happening on EFU, already happened on CoA essentially and it pretty much effectively killed the server.

[Maximum Xas]

"Play your sheet" goes in several directions. A character with CHA 8 or INT 8 can learn to function properly in fields they do not have an aptitude for. This is represented by skill ranks.

 CHA 8 is an especially hard case to judge there, because it is only a -1 modifier on diplomacy tests. The utterly uncouth and horrid depictions of social outcasts that people sometimes seem to expect fit more with a CHA score of 4-6, which is reminiscent of a goblin or kobold, and only if they have zero ranks in social skills to compensate. For example, if one watches the character of, say, Richard Woolsey in Stargate, one has a decent depiction of CHA 8, who got fairly far in his respective organisation. Not because he was naturally gifted and personable, but because of hard work and training in the skillsets necessary to do his job. The same is true for any other stat. It's basically nature vs. nurture.

As for the dungeon train, I avoid it. It seems a bit hard to get into RP by doing so, because folks tend to walk away before I'm done typing an emote, but my characters who aren't evil aligned don't murderhobo without a reason or a plan and I don't feel like bending that. Some dungeons they will do over and over again. It makes sense, for example, to pick up healing herbs periodically, when they bloom, or delve into the worm tunnels to gather food for the poor. Why would they -not- do that? Other stuff, like a spider-infested mine,t hough? Eh, no real reason, tbh. Doesn't mean other characters don't have a sound reason, though. Dwarves, perhaps, wish to keep "their mines" safe.

[Kinslayer988]

When EFU:R started I displaced myself from the server and took some time away to do some soul searching (college) and recover myself. Now after a good amount of time I have come back into what feels like a deadzone and a lot of it comes down to:

(1): Unspirited players are not being penalized for their actions and OOC actions
(2): Conditioned to level for Upper
(3): Preparing for the "big stuff"

1. I don't like calling people bad RPers or bad players in general and instead would like to refer to the people saying "Shagga", not roleplaying low ability scores, and not engaging with the server as unspirited players. I have in time past actually lost XP for doing things out of character, and been penalized. EFU does have high standards, and a small tickle of 100 XP for doing something unfitting while not crippling, can leave a reminder when it is taken constantly.

2. I notice this RP happening most in the Upper Sanctuary Square, the number one place I have frequented as a town-square preacher character. There have been characters who just go //AFK phone or drink // and that is okay sometimes as they need to get something, but when I see people who have stood there for 5-20 minutes saying nothing and just watching when I try interacting with them. I have noticed ten factionless PCs that adventure and quest around often, and many of them leave me with interactions that make me want more. So far I have not seen these PCs make any attempts to create deals with other characters/NPCs and it concerns me of what those characters want.

3. Preparing for the big stuff has been a long term EFU problem that has circulated now especially. Players are waiting for DM events/want to get as much as they can and use it for superiority. What I don't understand is that even when they have obtained a high level and high loot, they retire, switch to a new PC, or decide to wait for the "big stuff" like a DM event or Mob Event. Truth is, why do you seek the big stuff when you can make little things such as patrolling the machine and the lowerdark for answers into big things like a raid against Traensyr, the exploring of Chazbah, or a new pacification campaign in Lower.

The thing about these problems is that it is a player mentality causing these problems mixed with the safety of Upper Sanctuary and the current stagnation within it. Each person thinks differently, and how they act with others and react is different.

But as players on EFU you need to be willing to be patient, open with others, and seek to push the envelope. Players need to be quick thinking and devote to the overall story on EFU. DMs have a job in aiding the players while telling the main story.

It takes only a couple words to cause conflict between two characters, so embrace it! If you want DM attention I was taught that you have to be communicative and ask, then afterwards if you want more, cause some conflict and the DM will want to come along. It comes down to players developing characters (I see those 10 PCs and I see some that have done so and some that have not) and pushing for things around the server.

I see a lot of potential. Players should not be waiting for the DMs to do something cool because then you find yourself waiting for the big stuff, for the big thing to come. What players should be the doing is getting conflict started on their own, making fun unique characters, and pushing things on their own so that DMs want to come and play with us again.

[Vlaid]

Just a few points to make here about what I feel is going on. Your mileage may vary.

Low Level Experience: For both new and old players alike the initial experience to the server is very MMO-like and frankly boring. It's good maybe to introduce someone brand new to the server to the different areas of the city, but it still ends up feeling a bit like a MMO. Go talk to this guy, get some xp+gold, go to another NPC do the same, repeat 5 times before you can finally start playing and "starting" for real. I'm sure people have rattled off plenty of times potential solutions/replacements to these delivery quests so I don't need to mention them here.

Worm Pit/Rat Hunting: To a new player, and someone who is low level (or just died) the worm pit/rat hunting basically says to someone "grind away, that's what this server is". I know why it exists, but I feel the XP/rewards should just be upped+level capped off more swiftly so people can get into it and out of it a lot faster rather than grinding through it repeatedly to get what they need out of it (I'm guilty of this on occasion). Nothing says "MMO experience" like waiting for respawns to make another sweep of an area.

Reward Incentives: I really feel like the rewards for doing cool/risky stuff compared to just lounging around questing without any affiliation/alliances/enemies and waiting for the next big DM event aren't as good as they used to be or could be today. In a perfect world everyone would just RP to the max all the time without need for rewards or incentives. But people see unfairness and adjust their playstyle accordingly. OOC recruitment for factions, clique groups forming pre-start with complimentary builds with minimal to no conflict within (at least nothing more than occasional tension, no real risks), sprinting around questing with your preformed groups to hit all the quests as fast as possible. Surprisingly I've seen it more commonly from the "Vets" of EFU than I have from the new players. The new players EFU has accumulated over the last year or so are actually putting a lot of us old, tired, bitter, nostalgic vets to shame in their enthusiasm and "sticking to it"-ness. It's easy to get sucked along with these poor practices because it's easy and VERY rewarding compared to the other paths available in the module when there isn't a lot of consistent DM activity. If I had my way I would put a much stronger emphasis on rewarding IC recruitment and do more to not reward people who roll around with essentially the same group of people or won't play a PC without a premade OOC group of friends to romp around and do all the quests with ideal setups of melee/buffs/ect. A lot of the DM plots lately have been of this "group start" fashion as well which seem to encourage the building to complimentary fashion for good or ill. Not all, but most certainly seem to encourage it.

DM Factions, DM Plots and Story Continuity: I've felt that over the course of EFUR it has felt like the DM Factions really aren't in it or as involved as they used to be in previous chapters. I'm not sure why it feels that way; player issue or not enough push from DM plots linked into those DM factions maybe. I'm a bit confused why that is as the DM factions seem like the perfect platform to tell more lasting stories. Stories that can transition to the next PC more easily when important/prominent PCs die by passing along the story through the factional NPCs and the faction forums.
Related to that, it feels like the plots and general storylines of EFUR have been more microsized self-encapsulated things that have no relation to anything. Similar to a sitcom episode. Stuff happens, people die/survive/whatever, but then none of that transitions beyond that "episode" or follows into the future to leave any kind of lasting, MEANINGFUL change on anything (some notable exceptions). There doesn't feel to be a great continuity of a story being told anymore (both from player and DM side). Just things happen and then everything goes back to the way it was before to setup for the next "episode" of the sitcom. It's hard to really get excited and engaged to RP in a setting that has stopped moving from both sides of the server. This goes both ways though. I'm sure it's just as frustrating from the DM side to see players not really engaging in what they are doing as it is from the player side.

Negativity/Bitterness: This last one is just purely my own opinion and probably more than a little biased. But I feel like EFU has really developed a very negative and bitter vibe that has slowly started becoming toxic. There's just plain a lot more mean spirited, elitist and hateful things being said either openly or privately about people within the community. I think this may, in some way, be contributing to this "ugh screw this, I'm just going to put together a TEAM and quest the shit out of this place and do whatever I want!"....sentiment I've heard here and there. I think we all owe it to each other to try and be a bit more tolerant, understanding and supportive of our community if we want to keep EFU going into the future.

Just my opinion as someone who's found it harder and harder to really get into EFU with each consecutive character I've played in EFUR.