Lycanthrope DR

[AfroMullet]

Lycanthrope already lose their subrace skill bonuses when the shift.

For example, these are the skill bonuses of a wererat.

Skills: Hide +8, Listen +4, Move Silently +4, Spot +4.

But they are all lost when shifting into animal or hybrid shape. You get spotted MUCH easier, and become less effective when trying to spot enemies that actually do pack a punch, even to a lycan. (The sneak attacking cats, those orc assassins.)

And like Damien said, do to the armor unequipping, your AC will be lowered. This is not as much of a problem on quested scripts as it is in PvP. In PvP, the best bonus of the lycan is easily negated because magic weapon loot is so easy to get.

Applying this to high level lycans would not be that much use, becaus I doubt that any lycan will rech a high level anyways, even with the XP gian changes.

5/+2 would be a nice change to see. It would not make lycanthropes much more powerful. They would not become much more powerful on quests, because the monsters who carry +1 weapons already hit hard enough to tear through the 5/+2 dr anyways.

And in PvP, the lycanthrope DR would not be negated completely as easily anymore.

[Snoteye]

No, you don't lose them. That has been fixed.

[ExileStrife]

Shit, it's like the ECL isn't even there anymore.  (Of which I wouldn't be surprised.  XD)

[AfroMullet]

The rest is still true, regardless.

And the skill point bonus loss does not appear to be fixed for me.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Seems to come down to whether lycanthropes should be substantially more powerful than a comparable, well equipped adventurer or not.
In PvP, that kind of dr would see the lycanthrope come out on top just about every time.
If they're too vulnerable right now an ac bonus might work to balance them out?

[Egon the Monkey]

This would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.

5/2 equates to "free unbeatable perma-blur in trusted company". In PVP, anyone who's not a shifted lycanthrope will use Blur to get 5/1 DR anyway if the opponent doesn't have MW. A level of DR you need GMW to get past seems overpowered as you'd need a scroll (that you aren't UMDing) or ally to have a chance, wands are incredibly expensive and loot negligible.

[scribjellydonut]

If a lycanthrope has a DR of 10/+1 and I have silver arrows, which in all known lore from films and movies are supposed to absolutely destroy a lycanthrope. I have a shortbow that's not mighty and does 1d6 + the 1d6 from the arrows. So the DR would absorb the 1d6 normal damage and would do 1d6 magical damage to the lycanthrope(from the arrow only), right?

[AfroMullet]

Seems to come down to whether lycanthropes should be substantially more powerful than a comparable, well equipped adventurer or not.
In PvP, that kind of dr would see the lycanthrope come out on top just about every time.
If they're too vulnerable right now an ac bonus might work to balance them out?

Even a horribly equipped adventurer will have magic weapon because it is so easy to find them. So lycanthropes do not have many defenses anymore.

That 5/+2 would make them come out on top every time sounds quite silly to me.

This would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.

I believe silver weapons function the same on PC lycanthropes as they did on the Chosen. A silver weapon should still damage them, even if they have 5/+2 DR.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Even 5 dr that can't be penetrated is really powerful.
It's just my opinion, but it seems a bit unbalancing.
It's not as though there aren't alternatives.

[Listen in Silence]

5 dr isn't that spectacular. Most characters over lvl 4 would be able to get through it in one way or another.

I'm in favour of this; Lycanthropes could need these small advantages. If they ever do get into PvP they're likely to be outnumbered anyway.

[Snoteye]

This would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.

As opposed to now, where silver weapons are semi-useless against PC lycanthropes. :P

[Not.Him.Again]

Look at it this way. Lets assume pvp between two players, both level 6. One is a say a wererat the other is say some type of melee ftr type build.

1. Wererat
- Has 1/10 and 2/5 damage reduction.
- Armor unequiped. (Lets even say its a rogue dex build with maxed dex, lets call it AC of 18... )

2. Melee Ftr Type Build
- Most likely has a +1 magic weapon item somewhere.
- Assume a STR of 16
- Assume +2 damage to favored weapon feat
- Fairly high BAB
- Damage is Weapon Damage + 6 (1 from magic weapon, 3 from str, 2 from feat)

Oh wait that means they are doing Weapon Damage + 1 automatically to the wererate even -if- we give the +2/5 DR. This does not even take into account such things as bull strength potions, coating a weapon with alchemist fire, having a mage cast darkfire ... you get the idea.

What about the rest of the classes?
- Rogues: Do they usually go into melee pvp anyway? I usually see them land a sneak attack and tricks to win. These still hold true.
- Casters: No spell resistance so they arent affected
- Monks: Stun fist is still good to go.
- Barbarians: Rage will give you enough str damage to easily cut through the damage reduction with a simple +1 magic weapon charm.
- Rangers: Lets face it rangers tend to have issues with pvp in general.

[TheMoonlightBecomesYou]

I am rather for this suggestion. Lycanthropes should be terrifying, and a bad thing to cross!

[Luke Danger]

If this happens, PC's should be vunerable to silver weapons.

[Snoteye]

I am rather for this suggestion.

There's a surprise.

Maybe I should add, just for the record, that I'm not the one you need to convince, mostly because you can't. I feel rather strongly that if you apply for a sub race with LA, you apply to suck (to an extent), at least in certain areas. It's that same reason I'm fundamentally against eliminating the concept of LA. The fact that silver weapons don't, and currently can't be made to, work correctly against PC lycanthropes is also something I consider a major freebie.

However, there are maybe a handful of DMs would could simply tell me to do this and I would without a single objection. These are the people you need to convince.