More range! (Not marksmen)

[VanillaPudding]

I <3 EFU, I think that all the great work put into it is amazing and the vast amount of time spent to design such a place in greatly appreciated by many people and from such things is where my suggestion comes from.

Old Port looks like an amazing place, even what little we get to see of it, the underdark is not far away and holds previous (and perhaps new) things that have had a ton of time spent on them. Each of these, and more places as well, deserve to be seen by players more often than on special DM events.

I find it strange that in a world where players start as level 2, and can -easily- reach level 6 without trying in one quick session, depending on in game circumstances, cap out at level 10 and most never even seeing a glimpse of that.

There are many awesome things to be done at those levels that simply can't be done at the current range. It's even worse off by showing players NPCs of much higher levels that they can't obtain. This is an older game by many years, and while we are certaintly on EFU for it's amazing RP, it should have much more to offer in terms of progression. The current scale of advancement that is offered is insanely quick and dull, as stated before by players reaching 6 in one quick sitting and often never seeing anything above level 8. Is it not possible to open up higher levels (11-14) and and offer our players more options? It honestly feels like we are trapped on this Ziggarut, which is oddly enough how it felt in original EFU.

I'll touch on the often claimed negetives here first.

- Harder to balance : No, it is not. If action servers can balance for level 40s, it's not hard to balance for a level 12.

- Low Levels = RP : No, roleplay comes from the players and has nothing to do with levels. Even a system where players could only advance past some sort of 'soft' cap with DM permission is totally awesome, but RP has nothing to do with skill at a game. If you are so good at RP and unable to stay alive in scripted quests or other similar tasks, the XP will surely be rewarded for your awesome RP.

- It doesn't matter VP, just stfu and play : Well, I feel it does matter. How can a server with this amount of work put into it, and probably the best roleplayers around not have more population than many other servers like it? The answer is simple to me, it's because this is still a game, and we are all here to enjoy ourselves. Who honestly enjoys lingering around the Ziggarut alone, no one. The more people quality players you can interact with the better, and I can say from experience that the level range here keeps a ton of players away that could only help to make this place even better than what it already is!


So, in very short terms, what are the thoughts on a wider level range? Once again, no one is talking about people spamming timestop, more like allowing a little more action on screen in a game that has 500% more combat than PnP yet tries to be balanced around it. (12-14'ish range max)

[Sandstorm]

TLDR.
 
This seems like it would benefit powergamers instead of most people! Right now people who get to L11 and beyond can be carefully monitored.

[VanillaPudding]

As stated, a system where they are 'wanded' at a certain point to allow only people that aren't going to cause grief takes care of "power gamers"

We all don't enjoy selling things all day :)

[Cruzel]

only dm favorites like caddies will be 'wanded' to progress that high and greif us all.
















































That aside, I would be up for seeing the imaginary cap raised from 6-8 to atound 9-10 or maybe 11, with the few rare people (DM favorites) hittng 13 or 14.

some classes truly shine at higher levels (Like monks) and in a low level setting they are kind of bad.

[Caddies]

Despite having a PC that would benefit from this suggestion more than most given his level, I am very much firmly against it.

Notwithstanding the fact its already been debated by the DM team who quite simply know whats best, there are quite a few downsides you didn't list. I'll just list one because I'm lazy:

Level 11+ casters and level 12+ fighters.

By increasing the level range up to 14, it would not be uncommon then to have L11+ casters and L12+ full BAB classes, the former getting access to frankly overpowering spells and the latter gaining a third attack.

One of the best things about EFU is a direct result of the very thing you're complaining about; people can level up very quickly, before it slows down dramatically. This is perfect. It means new characters can have an impact immediately.

There is simply nothing as stale or laborious as having a great and exciting concept that you really do have to wait to L11 to begin so you can stand a chance against the Bigby's Forceful Hand, Circle of Death, FTS and Tenser's-spamming wizards or the Crippling Stike rogues or the Harm-spamming clerics or the +18/+13/+8 (unbuffed) fighters who might consider you an enemy if you put your plan into motion.

Lots more reasons but I'm sure someone else will take up the fight, too tired right now TBH.

[Sandstorm]

Fighters get a third attack at L11, don't they?

[Caddies]

L11 then, whatever!

[Letsplayforfun]

As much as i enjoy lvl, i don't see how that would benefit anyone. Low lvl is easier to balance in terms of character power.

As for the comments made:
-Lvl40 servers are not balanced at all, in terms of pcs or items, comparison to EFUA on that scale has no meaning at all.
- If RP doesn't have anything to do with lvl, why increase lvl range in the first place?
- Lvl does matter, i agree, because in the end that's what this computer game is about, but before asking to increase lvl range, wait till 50% of the server gets to lvl 9, and perhaps it will be worthwhile. How many PCs ever reached lvl10, anyways?

Honestly, i'd love my lvl10 mage to get to 11, but i like it to be really hard, or if made easier, it should be from DM perks because the PCs has brought something to the server, not because i have a lot of powerquesting time.

And in the end, starting on that trend would only bring in one year's time the 'how about a lvl7-15 server?" question.

One of the assets of EfU is being low level, enabling beginner PCs to be able to conflict immediately with veterans. Don't take that away.

Just my two cent.

[Cruzel]

the DM team who quite simply know whats best

caddies not being on the DM team anymore means he clearly does not know what is best.

[Listen in Silence]

No, no no no, a thousand times no.

The good arguments have been listed against you, and frankly I cannot accept any of your arguments for this change. I'm loving the low level setting, and how difficult it is even with powerquesting at my velocity, to reach lvl 9 and 10.

Keep as is, in my opinion. The grass is certainly not greener on the other side of the fence. In fact, the other side of the fence is a desert. Without any oasis. And overpowered high level characters who never go away.

[VanillaPudding]

Despite having a PC that would benefit from this suggestion more than most given his level, I am very much firmly against it.

Notwithstanding the fact its already been debated by the DM team who quite simply know whats best, there are quite a few downsides you didn't list. I'll just list one because I'm lazy:

Level 11+ casters and level 12+ fighters.

By increasing the level range up to 14, it would not be uncommon then to have L11+ casters and L12+ full BAB classes, the former getting access to frankly overpowering spells and the latter gaining a third attack.

One of the best things about EFU is a direct result of the very thing you're complaining about; people can level up very quickly, before it slows down dramatically. This is perfect. It means new characters can have an impact immediately.

There is simply nothing as stale or laborious as having a great and exciting concept that you really do have to wait to L11 to begin so you can stand a chance against the Bigby's Forceful Hand, Circle of Death, FTS and Tenser's-spamming wizards or the Crippling Stike rogues or the Harm-spamming clerics or the +18/+13/+8 (unbuffed) fighters who might consider you an enemy if you put your plan into motion.

Lots more reasons but I'm sure someone else will take up the fight, too tired right now TBH.

So, you first state that the characters of wizards and sorcs would obtain overpowered spells, and then state that fighters would be overpowered.  So, in a PvP standpoint, these things would not change either side considering people followed the rules. Monsters at those levels are balanced to counter (as much as they do now in relation) such abilities. Of course there are a few spells that would need to be tweaked, but there were quite a few of the lower level spells that needed to be tweaked too. There is a reason almost every server around has Bigby spells nerfed, even the one you commonly use now in game Caddies, those things would obviously need to be looked at, but spell fixes and balances shouldn't be used to argue the point of this thread. Not to mention a few of the tings you listed are already possible by becoming level 10, which is obtainable by a few.

Having an impact immediatly? No, I don't think so. If level is power then sure, but I thought that's what you were arguing against. RP is power here, and as such the levels would not change what you claimed. They can obviously make a difference in pvp, but otherwise it's not a valid argument and allowing only players that have shown not to cause problems to access these levels would prevent any stupid events from unfolding.

As for the comments made:
-Lvl40 servers are not balanced at all, in terms of pcs or items, comparison to EFUA on that scale has no meaning at all.
- If RP doesn't have anything to do with lvl, why increase lvl range in the first place?
- Lvl does matter, i agree, because in the end that's what this computer game is about, but before asking to increase lvl range, wait till 50% of the server gets to lvl 9, and perhaps it will be worthwhile. How many PCs ever reached lvl10, anyways?"

No one said level 40, but there are plenty of servers balanced for very high level characters. That point is null as I stated.
I also never said RP doesn't have anything to do with levels. But to counter what you said, why not? If we were here for purely RP and no adventure we would be on a social server staying at level one, right? Your last point sounds kind of like how an MMO might release an expansion and holds no merit to this conversation. You seem to be debating things without knowing how the changes would really effect anything on the server. You are claiming that you like a challenge of reaching level 11 but have no reason as to why a challenge to reach level 14 would be any different when it would honestly open up more options as far as adventure and diversity in things we can face in our challenges.

[Ommadawn]

For what it is worth, I love the low level, low power, low magic feel of EfU and now EfU:A. It far more resembles realistic fantasy (if that is even possible) than the feel of higher level servers.

I feel it keeps things interesting and easy for the DM team to manage, and most importantly, allows new characters or players to have some impact without being totally overwhelmed or rendered insignificant by the current high level posse.

[Caddies]

So, you first state that the characters of wizards and sorcs would obtain overpowered spells, and then state that fighters would be overpowered.

Yes I did.

Overpowered in relation to non L11+ PCs, as per the entire theme of my post. I was not talking about class balance issues between L11 casters and L11 melee PCs anywhere in my post so not sure where you got that from!

Having an impact immediatly? No, I don't think so. If level is power then sure, but I thought that's what you were arguing against. RP is power here, and as such the levels would not change what you claimed. They can obviously make a difference in pvp, but otherwise it's not a valid argument

You can't say that 'RP is power here' then admit that while levels make a huge difference in PvP (a function entirely of RP) the argument that they do is invalid. This makes zero sense whatsoever!

The fact is on EFU a L5 fighter, using the right consumables and items, can kill a L8 mage or a L8 fighter. A L5 fighter cannot kill a L12 mage or a L12 fighter (let alone a L14 PC) under any reasonable circumstance really.

[MexicanGunslinger]

You want to raise the level cap? What will this cause? Well I believe it will cause people to QUEST EVEN MORE TO GET TO THAT CAP, so whats the point? Players level up quickly to a certain level because than they are encouraged to get into plots to advance their chars, instead of QUESTING.

I doubt this is ever going to happen.

[Snoteye]

Level 2 cap, imo.