Lair system suggestions

[granny]

I think lair entrances should be at least locked. I find it odd that people are able to get entrance to a lair without supervision. The chest is there and open to anyone interested into taking whatever they want. It's hard to enforce the rule of "do not enter here without DM supervision" if someone decides to troll or just to break the rule.

[noctem]

You can freely enter a lair, and providing that it's at an early enough stage without the presence of NPCs, you're allowed to freely loot/destroy without DM oversight. It's only in the presence of lair NPCs that you need DM oversight to loot/destroy.

[Grotesque]

Some lairs are locked. Others get different perks.

[Garem]

To Granny's point at the top of page 2 re: stealing, I don't think this has become a problem yet. It probably never will be. There are logs to deal with this kind of thing if it happens.

That being said, the openness of many lairs appears to be a distinct feature - even if not a mechanically positive one. So stealing isn't discouraged!

I mean, hasn't this community time and again suggested more ways for non-combat thief PCs to thrive? >.> Talk about an awesome new opportunity.

[granny]

I am not sure if it's really kept any log. I had an issue regarding contents of the chest not too long ago and the DM didn't seem to know what was lost (and neither me, considering all crap I accumulate).

[Zango_Unchained]

You had an issue, in which you didn't know what was stolen and you thought something was stolen and no party could tell what was stolen? That seems more of a user error then a issue in rule breaking.

None the less, I highly enjoy the lair system, And if anything. I would suggest that they would be open 24/7 but when the player/players are not on it takes a high search check to discover or something akin to that.

[granny]

You had an issue, in which you didn't know what was stolen and you thought something was stolen and no party could tell what was stolen? That seems more of a user error then a issue in rule breaking.

It was an issue on the DM's side, which one exactly does not matter here. I only mentioned it to emphasize that a chest looted without permission can't be tracked.

[VanillaPudding]

I think lair entrances should be at least locked. I find it odd that people are able to get entrance to a lair without supervision. The chest is there and open to anyone interested into taking whatever they want. It's hard to enforce the rule of "do not enter here without DM supervision" if someone decides to troll or just to break the rule.

Oddly, I think the singular "downfall" of lairs is that they require a DM to be raided in the first place. I'd rather see it so that the place can be pillaged, the guardsmen killed, and some of the coins stolen. (Not all, that's what some means) It would really degrade the lair unless they happened to be sitting on the cusp of the upgrade.

[putrid_plum]

I  have to agree if you play an off time where no DMs are on for hours and hours, you find a lair... and that's that.  A way to trigger the guards hostile to non-lair friendly people would be great so raiding them didn't take a DM.

[Howlando]

If you suspect someone has been sneaking into your lair to steal things I can find out. There are logs.

It may have been ME though granny, as I think I had to make room to drop a certain item in your storage chest.

Also it really is best to use storage exclusively for items that are needed to be stored, and not just filled with unimportant crap.

Depending upon the theme, different lair types have various degrees of being lockable. Regardless, players shouldn't steal if there are NPCs present without getting a DM.

[granny]

I like it to not be that easy for people to invade and destroy the lair without supervision. I like the fact that you need the owner at least around and that you will need a DM to invade a lair if it got guardians.

Consider that the owners might not be logging as much as other players. Consider that they might be alone. And consider that they will be slower than most other groups in growing and getting stronger (alone in the dark, monsters of the dark, slower XP gathering, several deaths, being often hunted and so on).

I do not understand why you need it to be any easier to kill and stop a monster from bringing atmosphere and interaction to the server.

We already have similar situation on herbal gathering, where you destroy gardens at your will without supervision. To me, it has not provoked a lot of interesting interaction. If you want to destroy the lair, let's make it at least a bit meaningful... and give the owner the chance to show up and be a bit monstrous.

[Letsplayforfun]

The tough period is the first tier. At the start there's no need for dm, end even your chest is not guarded if you leave. It's though it hard on moral when you've spend weeks nearly reaching the 2nd tier and someone destroys it. but remember that when you app for a monster, you also app to have a hard time. More the reason to beat up anyone that scouts the wild...

Once the second upgrade is reached, there's npcs, so it settles the issue. I think it's good to have a hard time settling in at first, because you're a nobody alone in the UD.

For PCs finding lairs, it's worth noting that the more you wait before smashing it, the more XP & gold gain you can gain... Appart from this venal aspect, there's also lots of rp opportunities when you have discovered a lair than just destroying it (including blackmail...)

Last piece of thought, some lairs aren't "monstrous" and unless you're some pillaging guy, you would probably need some IC reason to just break a normal living place you came across...

[granny]

Just to clarify, my post was in answer to the suggestions of making it easier to raid lairs by making them available 24/7.

[PanamaLane]

This sounds like a really cool system, that I have had exactly zero exposure to. So I guess my suggestion would be:

Is there a way this system could also be adapted for use in Dunwarren? Seems to me like there are tons of empty buildings, from the public housing, to the in-between, lower and ally ruins etc. I kind of like the idea of squatters and gangs getting in on the lair fight to.

[Random_White_Guy]

There is a Dunwarren lair, yes.

As far as the matter of Lairs go I feel that the DM oversight is needed for the same reason it's needed in PvP. It's very easy with the lairs to begin to see it as easy pickings but as LPFF said there's a story being crafted and so on.

I feel the biggest aid this brings is to legitimate monster PCs whose lives are brutal, short, and quick. Granted half the fun of a monster is at any singular time you can be hunted, killed, and thrown into the river. However the opportunity in a place where you can relax (To a degree), have a modicum of normalized RP, and so on isn't something I feel should be laughed off.

Having played quite a few monsters both publicly and on alt accounts there's times you get FD'd wordlessly. Other times you get a few minutes of dialogue and then get cut down. For monsters that's well and fine and as a monster you're often in the UD so it doesn't require a DM, but the way I see it there's something to be said for a place where a monster PC can flesh out their concept, have an RP'd interaction in a less hostile environment, and more to help create an actual character presence. While I fully agree that monsters should be FD'd on first encounter if it applies to your character, now requiring a DM does give monsters a bit of a buffer from that.

I know Magnatz exists, as well as Mur, but both those places I feel pale in comparison to what a true Monster lair could be for a proper monster concept unless you're playing A) a Thrall or B) An actual servant of Magnatz.

Not all of those aspects fit those PCs so a Lair with NPCs that say a band of PC goblins has cultivated or so on allows a broader scope of RP for the server which is all in al la good thing.