Appeal to players with regard to disguises

[whiterabbit]

I think the player base of EFU is awesome.  I've never played a game I liked better, and that is because of the immersion that is possible in EFU, which would not be possible without the excellent player base.

That being said, it's disappointing to see how some players handle disguises.  My current PC currently has two personas.  The two personas could not be more different.   They dress different, they talk different, one rarely shows his face, the other doesn't show his face at all (and I know who's seen his face, I have pages and pages of notes).  I change my PC's description every time he changes his clothes.

I have only seen one other PC on the server who might surpass my points in bluff.  I know because I have /c detect act.

Despite all this effort, I have people who basically walk up to me IC and are like "I heard you on the sending system last night.  You in disguise or what?" Or "You're a fat halfling.  I know another fat halfling.  You must be him".  Really?  Look at the sendings I make, they are dry and straightforward.  I always identify myself as another persona in them.  How can you think that is the person you are talking to?  You can see I'm obviously trying to be disguised, why can't you stay IC and try to respect it?

Some players have been marvelous at respecting it.  And I'm deeply appreciative to them.  I know it's not easy to respect other people's disguises.  I try my best to respect the disguises of other's.  I keep notes of every person who's face I've seen and haven't seen, and if I want to consider busting them on their disguise, I take careful notes of their traits.  Sometimes I ask them OOC questions.  "Is your PC changing their voice or the way they talk?  What does their face look like?  Are they wearing the same clothes?"

Please, if you're going try to out my PC for his disguise, could you have the decency to give a good reason why, other than "he talks the same" (he doesn't at all), and he's a fat halfling?  Ask me for a bluff check if you like?  Ask me a question OOC about my disguise?  And extend that to other players with disguises?  If you like mystery in the game, that's a good way to promote it.  And if you decide to play a disguised PC in the future, maybe the karma will come back to you.

I realize you aren't obligated to respect disguises - it is not enforced. But in my opinion it's fairly essential to playing your character correctly.

[VanillaPudding]

While I have no idea who you play or whatnot the last thing I want to do is try and keep track of what every player is wearing all the time. Unless it's massively obvious (lycans, the disguise tool, etc) then it's extremely tedious and really something you can expect people to be aware of when they interact with hundreds and hundreds of characters.

[TheShadow]

I completely agree with Rabbits statement, I have often seen people just blow away disguises, and have sometimes accidently done so myself. Yes, it can be tedious to recognize when someone is "disguised", usually it's easier with the disguise perk. however, try to respect it if they are trying to "Disguise" without it, it's the person who's trying to hide's job to make sure that others know they are trying to pass themselves off as someone they are not, but hey, if you really want to blow their cover? Fine, find a reason IC for even suspecting them, and follow that if you want, but don't being a dick, it's a lot of effort to make a good disguise to have a bit of fun and improve the over all story, which others might not make if it's not appreciated.

[Pandip]

NWN doesn't support disguises. Outside of the obvious examples of shifters, lycanthropes, and sometimes druids who are using wildshape, you should assume that your PC is going to be recognized as being who you are if you meet with a PC that you know. Outside of something that's been pre-established OOCly -- for instance, if you send a PC a letter asking for a mysterious meet-up -- you can't expect the playerbase to pay attention to every nuance of your PC's clothing selection.

[Arc]

If you dont recognize the PC by clothes, just play it off as not recognizing the PC. "We cant remember everyone's clothes" is a cop out that makes playing two faced PCs impossible.

Until we can finally slay the beast that is the name hovering over heads, if we want sly characters, its a cost we have to pay.

[whiterabbit]

NWN doesn't support disguises. Outside of the obvious examples of shifters, lycanthropes, and sometimes druids who are using wildshape, you should assume that your PC is going to be recognized as being who you are if you meet with a PC that you know. Outside of something that's been pre-established OOCly -- for instance, if you send a PC a letter asking for a mysterious meet-up -- you can't expect the playerbase to pay attention to every nuance of your PC's clothing selection.

The engine doesn't have to support everything.  Good roleplay can fix the shortcomings.

If you dont recognize the PC by clothes, just play it off as not recognizing the PC. "We cant remember everyone's clothes" is a cop out that makes playing two faced PCs impossible.

Exactly, if you can tell that the PC is trying to be someone else, but you can't remember the details of their PC when last you saw them, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt?  Or ask them some questions in tells?  Maybe take some quick notes in case you want to out them later?

[Blue41]

If you've got the space, keeping an extra outfit/helm handy with wildly different colors than what you're wearing might help drive home to some PC's that, yeah, this guy isn't your guy. But some people are just going to be better about it than others. Just keep your bluff score up and keep on keeping on.

[One_With_Nature]

I'm pretty sure DMs have said before you can't use clothing/emotes etc as a way to disguise yourself. My advice would be apply for the disguise perk if it matches your concept.

[Paha]

You certainly can use very distinctly different type clothing and setup to "disguise" yourself. You are expected to hold high bluff, possibly charisma to back this deception up as well.

First and foremost, however, it should be painfully obvious. It cannot be enforced, so we certainly can't tell people they could not recognise your speaking, voice or so, unless we can oversee these events and represent your possible skill with bluff and similar. I repeat, we cannot enforce this in daily play. We can surely have a say if we can oversee specific attempt, but outside that, it's difficult. We expect players to RP these things within reason. It is not an excuse either that nobody wants to keep track of it, while I totally understand it and it is sometimes very difficult in game like nwn because of it's visuals and lack of subtle mechanics. It also is not an argument to just do different coloured robe and claim you have a disguise with that and a pot helmet. It needs two to play along.

People however have responsibility on their own as well. You should make some effort to think if you know some person by face, name or what. If you've only seen clothes, spoken and heard name, you likely would not know much better if the same person appears in totally different garments and masks or something, and gave another name, unless you have some greater familiary with them. Again, there is just no way to enforce this, so it's all to all up to players. If you try to keep disguises, mostly it falls on you to represent your appropriate skills and attributes, and make it so painfully obvious, that you have somekind totally different disguise - leaving really no room for doubt.

[Brokenbone]

I am weak on whether we were using Bluff as a sub in for Disguise... it's odd to have Bluff in the first place without the countermeasure of Sense Motive anyhow.  Typical Bluff is "opposed rolls" with Sense Motive.  Disguise is opposed rolls vs. Spot.  Both have fairly complicated charts of modifiers you wouldn't expect people to know by heart and sort of DM themselves on point.

Still, even if someone has 20 Bluff and we're maybe honoring that as equivalent to Disguise... the minute they meet a 20 Spot ranger or rogue, they may be in trouble, no? Someone who'll notice "something is off", fake mustache, distinctive walk, exact height that this guy in a red outfit has compared to a fugitive last seen in a blue outfit, etc.

Again, disguises aren't meant to be foolproof, there's detection means available to folks with the relevant counterskills you'd think.  Of course, there'll also be a wide world of PCs not blowing crossclass ranks on Spot either, and who might be easier to take in.  

I didn't get the vibe from project yet though (new here!) that people bumping into each other use the social skills rolls / opposed rolls PC to PC, that's more NPC realm when called for by DMs.

[Paha]

Skills are not rolled between players. They are used in some scripted purposes and called by DM's, but we definitely expect you to build your character with attributes and skills that you roleplay.

If you have 0 bluff and we see you pulling out lies / disguises or deceiving someone one way or another, be it PC or NPC, you may suddenly see a very awkward emote of your own character sweating profusedly or end up being immediately found out by NPC's.

Don't take it too far into PnP style situation either. This is still a videogame with it's own set of boundaries and rules, that we bend mostly to our will, using the canon and basic settings as a core of it.

[Pandip]

Just to hop back into this conversation real quick, I want to make the disclaimer that I'm not trying to stomp all over your idea of good fun and rol eplay. But the fact of the matter is, any PC that tries very hard to engage in the subtleties of disguises without utilizing one of the actual disguise mechanics available (shifters, polymorph, etc.) is going to be thoroughly disappointed. People just don't pay attention. You'll get frustrated, send people tells that "no, no, you don't recognize him!" and it's going to be a mess.

There are other ways to play a subtle, conniving, and plotting PC that don't include the need for disguises. You might find that the playerbase is much more responsive to a different path, and I certainly imagine that you'll find it a bit less frustrating. We've had Spellguard Agents, Watchers, Directors, Prefects, etc. all meeting with very nefarious people without needing to use a disguise and their identities and actions were mostly kept quiet.

[Ductape]

we should all just name our PCs "."

then there would just be a floating dot over our heads, problem solved. :)