Suggestion for new PvP subdual rule

[CPT. Homie]

This suggestion is not sparked because of some events that may or may not have happened today, they only served as a reminder for me to make this post as this has been happening to me very recently and on a previous character.

This happened to me, the other day:

Case: Attacked a group of players. Managed to Subdue one. The PvP dragged out for a long time. Ran back to the one I subdued and by the time those chasing after me caught up, I stood over the Subdued body, emoting that I had him in a dead lock, requiring the least bit of effort to end his life. The players responded to that threat and stopped attacking me, and some roleplay commenced. Someone runs up invisible and starts to heal this subdued target (preventing me from killing him quickly if I had wanted to)


While it is hard to enforce and punish I guess, it might be worth specifying that a Subdued character is 'out for the count and completely helpless', and that healing them is not a valid method to prevent them from being killed quickly if the PvP victor would want to for any reason. Some clarity in this matter will help these types of situations pass by more smoothly.

What I'd like to suggest is a PvP rule that loudly specifies that this is not OK, along the lines of this:

[indent]Subdued targets who are kept hostage after PvP are not allowed to heal up or to be healed up by other friendlies, if it is done to prevent them from being killed by the hostage taker or assailant.  [/indent]

[BadLieutenant]

Sounds like one of those things that should be handled case by case.  More of a courtesy thing, really.  And those who are discourteous tend to be payed back somewhere down the line.  A rule like this would be extremely hard to enforce at any rate.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

Sounds like one of those things that should be handled case by case.  More of a courtesy thing, really.  And those who are discourteous tend to be payed back somewhere down the line.  A rule like this would be extremely hard to enforce at any rate.

[half_man_can]

I think he means just add it to the rule so people know it isn't OK.  I agree since subdual is a nice way of not just full death killing people instead, which is the alternative really.

[Mass Transit]

I've witnessed a few blatant PvP infractions lately, and would just suggest everyone read or re-read the PvP rules.

[CollegeDropout]

I thought it was already a rule that you could not heal subdued players until the pvp instance is settled and over with or the player who subdued allows it.

[Random_White_Guy]

Having been burned on this on many occasions I'd honestly rather say that people just stop being so merciful. I know it's a fairly unpopular opinion on EFU but sometimes folks gonna get got. Kiddie gloves help extend the story but to an extent they ruin the believability of being an evil figure in a post-apocalyptic miserable setting where things are rather gritty.

Personal feelings aside to address your suggestion - To remedy this situation I'd simply say use Black Out mode. Grab the body and abscond.  It has worked a lot for me in the past in similar situations.

The longer you linger the longer someone is going to get ballsy and go "LOL GET HIM" or "HAW HAW HEALED DUDE, LATER", etc. If it is a current PvP rule it is one that is blatantly avoided as per OP on countless occasions.

[cmenden]

I wouldn't mind clarification on what happens if you subdue someone and then a third party blacks out the person you subdued to steal their body from you!

I prefer subdual over full damage mode like 99% of the time, and even avoid blackout mode specifically because I don't want third parties absconding with my targets.

If this is a legit practice, then I'd suggest making it... less so?

[Howlando]

I've added some clarification to the rules, which may be worth reviewing.

(51) There are some nuances to damage modes and subdual in EFU PvP. If a character is attacking in full damage mode, and a target is sent into negative HPs immediately, that target is not subdued - they can be healed, continue fighting, flee, etc. If, however, a player is demonstrating OOC courtesy by using the Subdual damage mode - a subdued opponent is completely helpless, must remain on the ground, must cooperate with dropping_pack/giving over items/removing armor if ordered to do so, and may not re-engage or flee unless the opponent is no longer present, gives verbal permission, or a DM gives permission. Note that sometimes an observing DM will give permission to attempt to flee or re-engage if we deem it appropriate.

(52) Players are urged to respect the RP involved in hostage situations and not immediately default to attacking hostage-keepers without due consideration of other alternatives. A subdued hostage may however be healed as part of a rescue operation, however the hostage must remain down and helpless and not activate any defensive damage modes (i.e. no switching on expertise or equipping shield). Hostage keepers are advised to take precautions like stripping their opponents of defensive armor, etc.

(53) Using blackout mode on a subdued PC to steal or rescue a PC under the control of another character is forbidden unless you have specific DM permission to utilize this technique.

Please do not hesitate to report minor infractions to DMs so that we can very politel explain what's up to players who may simply not be aware of EFU's (tragically) lengthy rules.

[Pentaxius]

One question.

Say your opponent is subdued and at your mercy. You have a knife on his throat. If you want to slit his throat, do you need to switch FD, and begin attacking him? (say with a 1d4 dagger, this is bound to take a couple of rounds, and at this point every onlooker can jump to heal your target)

Or can you - and people should be aware of this - simply emote "slits his throat" (with a DM supervising)  ?

[Ebok]

If you have to actually kill him with a dagger. It essentially means that no one is ever /helpless/.

[Howlando]

If the supervising DM accepts a "throat slit" emote that's fine, but generally I would probably personally insist that you actually use the mechanics to kill the character.

[CPT. Homie]

Howl, you wrote in the new rule that the subdued target can move away if the opponent is no longer present. Does this mean that if you chase another target other than the subdued target, if he somehow 'baits you away', you're free to get up?

Edit: I am asking because I thought a pvp rule was that you could not get up without dm / winner's permission, or before the pvp and ensuing roleplay is over. I cannot find find this rule after a quick  browse on my phone. If this rule exists though then there's some conflict here.

[Howlando]

No, if PvP is ongoing you must remain down. I will edit to make that more clear.