Hardcore vs. Less Hardcore: Musings

[tooh]

more two cents!

I'll have to put myself on the non-Hardcore list for now, if one exists. I absolutely love the big high-risk quests such as Wild Orcs and Vrazdn, but my computer cannot handle the spawns. It freaks out. And while I do not mind my character dying to IC reasons (my first character got messed UP by that amazing Garagosian priestess and I loved every second of it) I absolutely hate losing three days' work to five seconds' lag/glitch. It demoralizes me.

That's my path too, I play in lag of about 250-300 ms at plain game and when have much summons, spawns and effects, all freezes, many times when I can return (after windows page_swap + select_application + default_nwn_init ) to discover my character death.

Yes, I play in very low settings of sound, video, textures and etc;

[VanillaPudding]

I did not read any replies yet so sorry if anything here is repeated.

For one, I agree with an OOC hardcore tag of sorts. This of course would need it's rewards and penalties if you ask me. I myself and very hardcore as far as expecting a challenge, but as a player there is nothing worse than having these situations and not getting rewarded for it. While we are all here for great RP, we are here most of all to enjoy ourselves and as stated, that comes in different ways for some people. Once again, so long as the rewards are fitting to the selected play style, it would work fine.

The only suggestion I have is that when quests are spiced, they are done so in a little more balanced fashion. It often seems that it's at the end and it turns into a DM controlling some creature that takes people to near death and it runs off to the next person, rinse and repeat. Some of the quests here are fairly long and while many of us 'hardcore' players always keep in mind not to blow our load early, we usually have to use what we can as we go to stay alive and with added spice at end, when it's obvious the mages can do nothing, it gets a little annoying.

I might also suggest a small adjustment in the way rewards are handled. It often seems that stacks and stacks of potions are handed out at the end of these spiced runs, and little else. In effect, you caused the fighters to use more potions, and gave them more with no true showing that something greater than normal was defeated. Sometimes this is fine, depending on the level of spice, but I hope, should this hardcore suggestion be put into place, that on hard events the rewards become a little more focused to each character involved for taking the greater risks.

- Quick side notes -
DM work here is always fun and unique, thank you.
Warnings for PvP are bleh
**If you refuse to be involved in PvP, you should not have had your character involved in something that would have caused it.**

[Ebok]

Just my two cents: I'm the extreme questor only when playing PCs designed/perpared for it. Often times here, I find that I can maintain a stockpile of near nothing with some pcs. Its less entertaining to face huge challenges, if your predetermined to only get to watch from the fugue.

The statements above really nailed the DM part of this question. I have to agree winston, and Egon makes a good point concerning the truly best DM quests. Either way, do what you enjoy. DMing has to be fun, or everything goes down hill.

[1019]

Speaking from my experience on similar RP PW servers that I've played on (as well as the brief but enjoyable experiences I've had so far at EfU), I would say that as long as there is sufficient warning from the DMs before-hand as to the possible severity of the upcoming event, there really is no need for a static list of who is "hardcore" and who is not. As MA pointed out, participation for some isn't a matter of whether or not it will end your character's career, rather, if it's something your character would rise up and engage, no matter the consequences.

I don't perceive myself to be a "hardcore" player per se, but I do know that if there was an event that was most likely going to leave my main character in a bloody mess afterwards, but had purpose and a well told story along with it, I certainly wouldn't (and won't) hesitate, as for me, it's always more about engaging RP and the story than loot and XP.

[KjetilofNorway]

I have a strong ideal about being a hardcore player; I pretty much play here because it is somewhat hardcore. I am not good at playing NWN though, shamefully so seeing as I have played it for 4 years or something. And I suspect that I can become more attached to my pixelated characters than I like to admit. I'll work on that, I guess.
 
Admittably, I enjoy and even love hardship and DM cruelty as long as it's somewhat related to a story I am involved in myself. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I suspect I'd be a bit bummed if I were to get killed suddenly as part of some totally unrelated story arc, as an innocent bystander or something. I dunno. A bad example would be stepping out of the Kingsman and get: "You catch a stray arrow, and you die." This is not to say that I am an attention whore or reluctant to share the spotlight, far from it. Just that for the grand finale of my characters, if I can't be the director, at least I'd like a somewhat leading role.
 
Hope that made sense. :)

[Jayde Moon]

If the DMs are doing te best they can to make it fun for the players, then... what?  I can't complain.  I don't think any DM who does that is thinking, "If I just set this quest up so it's impossible and everyone dies, then they'll ALL HAVE A GREAT TIME!"

When it comes to PvP, I think that a PvP warning IS in order.  But not in the moments before.  Days or even weeks before, a simple statement saying, "Your actions may/will lead to PvP between our characters."  Hell, even making the warning IC, heated words, "I'LL KILL YOU!"  or "Keep that up and you'll be sorry!".  Anonymous letters saying, "We see what you did there, better watch your back."

This gives them a chance to re-evaluate if they want to go there and 'warns them' without the meta-knowledge of, "I expect to get ganked in the next ten minutes, better buff up."

Example: I invited a friend to EfU, great Roleplayer with lots of time, and awesome NWN community skills (as a scripter and builder).  Both her characters were ganked by the same PC for two separate scenarios, both ganks were instant fugue, both were within a span of days.  Certainly an argument could be made for why her PCs absolutely needed to die, but in both cases, the 'crime' was merely speaking out about something negative her PC saw.  So the player in question's experience was a server focused on, "WTFPWNPvP" instead of at least attempting to find a mutually fun way to work out differences (such as an anonymous letter saying "We see you flappin your gums, STFU up you'll be SORRY!").  She won't come back and that's too bad.  EfU will go on, of course.

So while I don't think DMs can ever be "Too Hardcore" as long as their focus is creating a fun environment for everyone, I do think that our PvP shouldn't be SO Hardcore that there's a possibility of getting ,"WTFganked" out of nearly absolutely nowhere.

As a note, my own PvP experiences have been absolutely solid and fairly played by the perpetrators of those heinous acts!

[Sternhund]

All I'd like to add is, please don't add a tag system! I feel it sends across the wrong kind of message. As long as we somehow give fair warning of permadeath, the nature of the challenge should be representative of how difficult the quest will be.

Odd thought: I'm a hardcore player, but softcore DM.

[Sandstorm]

I would also like to echo the part of the message that it is not hardcore = good, softcore = bad. There really is no 'bad' in the message, it is just a different style of play. What is 'bad' is if you do not live up to your full potential, no matter what it is you are trying. I really do not consider myself to be a hardcore player, except in specific things I pursue.

[Lux Lucis]

I personally can't say where I stand. I've been playing NWN for a long time now, so I've sort of been in the middle-ground. I do like the dynamic nature of EFU:A a lot! It gives me a feeling that what I can accomplish with my character, could really mean something in the long run. Be it personal failures, or victories.

[Sedarine]

For now, I'll say I love hard spice, I love hardcore, and keep up the good work.

I'll also say EFU(any incarnation) is a PvP server. PvP can happen anytime, anywhere to anyone.

I'll elaborate more later when I have time, but for now I'll just leave it at; no great player or DM got to where they are now by avoiding a cause, a stand, a position, or a fight. If you want to be a feared badass of good or evil it means death can come at anytime. We all know how to PvP nice, but sometimes FD is the last and sometimes only option...make it a grand, climactic ending to the story, be it yours...or your foes!

And remember, all good ends are followed by a new begining. Explore something new next time! I always wanted to know what the machine did...Howland told me it was a svirf coffee maker...I'm pretty sure he was yankin' my chain ;)

By the way as potential victim of the PvP PWNing in the Malarite deal, that will rank up there as my scariest EFU moment ever...it was simply incredible! I thought about what I could have done different and came to the conclusion it wouldn't have mattered due to what was done by the others...even if I had made it, it would have been for nought. If I had to die there due to circumstances beyond my control I would have been just fine with it. Howland, I'm not sure if you set this up with the other team, but that was masterful...I tilt my hat to you once again.

[PanamaLane]

If you worry about everyone, you'll appease none. You're doing just fine. Keep at what you like to do and people will enjoy it. If they don't, tell them to go fly a kite.

I don't think its really about are you a hardcore player or softcore. Its about whether you go with the flow, or swim against the current. EFU:A is all about the flow. Its a fluid world, that's why we come here. Throw whatever challenges you want at us and we'll try to adapt, that's pretty much D&D in a nutshell.

[Equinox]

The way i see things is this.

If a DM announces a quest, and i choose to go on it. I will be fully prepared to accept that i may die. or even perma-die.

I take it as a given that any DM quest will be tough, they wouldn't have such fearsome reputations and awesome loot if they weren't. (looking at mort)

Also yes, I am aware that certain DM's are known for -insane- Quests and Spice (looks at mort again).

So I thinks its very simple, If you want to chance you pc's levels or life, in the name of epic loot, rewards, challenges and rp. Don't bitch about it if you should loose. Its the risk you take.

No tag systems please.

[Gippy]

I think mort sometimes runs very gentle things filled with love, joy, and fluffy bears. It is a shame to me people would shy away from DM interaction.

I am not a hardcore player. I have in my time playing NWNs been in the recieving end of a great deal of grueling, hard, dangerous and totally unrewarding spice. Things like just the mages possessed to spam dispel, or archers two shotting your support PCs, or even my favorite the six deadly gas traps with a deadly electric in the middle -- which makes what would be a balanced quest very dificult or imposible. This type of crap though, simply does not happen in efu:a and if you see it, and overcome it, then you probably will get a nice reward. If I was truly 'hardcore' I would accept that sometimes shit happens and you use all your stuff battling your way to the top of a keep only to find that the lord just gave his jewels to the collection agency... But after 3 hours or whatever, I really just want my magic trinket or potions or plot hook or chance to look like a raging badass infront of people. I think that EFU:A has done a great job of balancing reward vs risk -- but always the risk is surmontable. I think this is both good and bad, as you get this massive 'well, I can buff up and kill anything!' complex that goes on, however atleast you have a fighting chance, or the chance to run away. That is about all I am comfortable with -- the knowledge that the DM has put me in a situation where he would like to see me triumph, that there is a path to victory and I just need to be smart enough, fast enough, skilled enough to find it.

[Sinister Seneschal]

I would also like to echo the part of the message that it is not hardcore = good, softcore = bad. There really is no 'bad' in the message, it is just a different style of play. What is 'bad' is if you do not live up to your full potential, no matter what it is you are trying. I really do not consider myself to be a hardcore player, except in specific things I pursue.

<--- This. A lot of very good roleplayers are not good at questing/mechanics challenges and seem to get blown apart by a strong breeze.

[IxTheSpeedy]

I read 90% of these.  My opinion is that giving a quick OOC warning that a specific quest is going to be epic is the way to go.  I've gone on a Howland quest where that is exactly what was done, and I did Perma.  It was ok, didn't mind it so much.  If I had a character that I was really involved with though, I might have not gone.

I'd say to the DM's, do what you enjoy, if it's hardcore just give a OOC nod.

Oh, and thanks, this kind of forum asking the playerbase what get's us going is just another aspect of EFU:A that rules.