summon magical creature instead of paladin mount

[oni_misho]

I was playing a paladin and hit level five when I noticed I could not summon my mount. to be fair I know that summoning a mount on a server like this one would be a pointless thing to do. I think however that summoning an Angel or Celestial warrior is kind of over doing it.
I propose then that instead of summoning a mount, a paladin at level 5 would get the ability to summon a celestial creature (aka summon creature III caster level paladin level) once per day to aid him in his fight against evil.

[HalflingPower]

Would make rare DM celestial intervention less awesome and special.

"Yo, Joe the hound archon here again to help ya'll out - again"

[xXCrystal_Rose]

Should probably be an individual basis, like if your paladin PC is strongly attuned to celestial beings and affiliates with them often enough a DM might decide hey, this guy is pretty cool and doing something interesting, let's give him a 1/day lesser planar binding at -1 theme to be a little heavenly buddy because the third circle one sucks and the second circle one is much cooler to rp with. Such an ability would be a little bit... I dunno, not special? If every paladin could do it. It would really undervalue just how rare and how amazing it is for a being from heaven to enter into the material world, no matter how low on the celestial ladder it is. Also the problem of people using such a power as a generic expendable summon and not really appreciating it properly.

If anything, paladin perks? But really with all the dead paladin gods and rarity of paladins it wouldn't be worth the effort. Like paladins of kelemvor pnp have an order where they lose certain paladin abilities and gain more undead-killing specific abilities. That's sorta how I'd imagine the perks being. Not anything to make them stronger as a class in any way, but like said paladins are rare and their gods are few and there are more important things to do than that.

[Paha]

It's not likely to happen. We expect such things to be earned and played, and not be gained just by level alone.

Very well played and notable paladins easily get attention, and DM's love such succesful presentations, which are very rare. They do not really need any perks themselves, as they are very capable for what they do as it is, and they have boons to their own.

[oni_misho]

the idea behind this was that the Paladin mount that he gets from leveling to level five was removed but never replaced. I though it would be kind of cool if the DMs would give the power seeing as they have taken something in the first place.
I do see the point of getting a gods attention and all that but that is why I am a paladin right? that's why I have lay on hands, remove desise, and smite evil. I was just wondering why my mount was taken and I receaved nothing in retern, is it that a Paladin is harder to play? or was this an oversight?

[MaimedGod]

It's just a class modification. Paladins don't get summon mount on EfU and before that Cormyr premium module they didn't get summon mount period. Mounts are fairly ridiculous in NWN because they're a tank summon added to a tank class, they provide AC and movement speed bonuses via the Ride skill, and they're also pretty laggy, so it's pretty understandable why they aren't usable. This is also the Underdark, not really the place for horses in the first place.

As for the replacement suggested... paladins aren't celestial summoners, clerics, sorcerers and wizards are celestial summoners. Paladins are people who hit evil things with swords until they die. They receive holy powers, sure, but to be honest most of those are pretty minor (remove disease, what raw power) and at the end of the day they are a very martial class. I don't think they need summons nor do I think such things are thematically appropriate for the vast majority of paladins anyway.

[oni_misho]

as a paladin stands, it is better as a class to level a paladin to level 4 and then take the rest of the levels you earn as fighter. a fighter will get more feats, your level in paladin will open up most or all of the paladin base feats and you become much stronger as a martial fighter.
the point isn't to have a calestial summon be a tank, it could be that level one spell summon beam of light that the toy dove summons. it's about after level 4, there is no point in staying paladin.

[MaimedGod]

That's a point. You do get Aura of Glory, though. Granted, for some paladin builds (mine) that isn't possible and a multiclass is better. Paladin without 14 Wisdom definitely does lend itself very well to multiclassing because of the early feature stacking and the total dropoff of benefits afterwards, but I don't know that a summon would be the way of 'fixing' that. Perks, maybe.

[oni_misho]

you bring up a fair point. I understand now and will post something in perks suggestion on this. I am thinking of making 12 different perks for a paladin and I will use the fighter perks as a reference for what I suggest.

thank you all for feedback, I look forward to talking with DMs about posibility of Paladin based Perks.

[Paha]

Paladins get immunities, they get saving throws, they also get self-sufficed few buffs and unbelievable power against certain type of enemies. They also get ability to detect evil and carry a status for their specific position, which is difficult one at best.

Not all mechanics will balance out. We are a rather grim, action and conflict focused server where mechanics do matter, but we are above all a roleplaying community. Not all will be balanced with mechanics in mind - and perks for paladin are such a thing that I personally do not see easily happening, neither does this summon.

Certain suggestions are welcome, always, but be very mindful of the fact that normal perk ideals would likely not fit paladins at all.

[MaimedGod]

I think what he's trying to express is that all of those benefits you mention apply as much to a level 4 paladin/level 4 fighter as they do to a level 8 paladin, simply because of the fact that all of those benefits are stacked into the first four levels. Whether the lack of encouragement to stay "pure" paladin is something that needs to be fixed is up for debate, really, and I think it's the issue that is at the heart of the discussion.