Law Enforcement Brainstorm

Started by Howlando, March 11, 2009, 04:02:18 AM

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Kiaring

First I would like to state that the many ideas contained in this thread will likely be organically implemented by the Guard/Retainers, when there is a pressing need for them. Much like there is no sense in patrolling the wilds until there is trade, there is no reason for us to discuss punishments, greater role/involvement for the Guard in law enforcement, judicial system etc. because there simply aren't that many criminals/people trying to subvert order in the Colony.

One of my biggest pet peeves with NWN PWs in general is how players take the status quo to be the 'natural state of things' - yet, in EfU:A, we were all given the precious chance to have a glimpse at the setting before Sharboneth, the Armada, the Order, and all the more lawful factions came into the picture. What does this mean? That players should, must, really, have a memory of what things used to be like, so that they can consider what things could/should be like.

What I mean by this has been stated in other posts already. Sharboneth pretty much executed a hostile takeover of the Colony. The homegrown attempts at government were pretty much bypassed in favor of their system/model, and I can't help but wonder if this is due to Sharboneth being a DM-controlled entity, unlike those who previously attempted to build/maintain a government. This affords them a greater deal of legitimacy in the eyes of the casual player; It makes them a much greater foe to challenge, to those who would try to sow dissent and disorder. And, naturally, since they brought in a veritable tonne of assistance (and a semblance of order) to the Colony, given their large assets/resources, perhaps the great majority of characters is content with them in charge. It is a bit strange to me, however, that a great deal of those who stood for 'freedom' and 'an end to tyranny' simply stopped their outcries the moment Ortred's government segued into the current one, with no figurehead to stand between Sharboneth and the actual management of daily colonial affairs.

With this in mind, I have two thoughts. One is for players in general, the other is perhaps an embryo of an idea for the Sharboneth Guard/Retainers. These echo what has been said before, but are somewhat more fleshed out.

  • Players in General: Try and stand up to Sharboneth a bit more. Do not take their near-complete control of the settlement to mean that they cannot be challenged. Question their authority, and do your best to foment at least a fledgling 'independent' entity. Stress the differences between those who were brought to Ymph by portal, and those who came from Old Port. Explore these venues, attempting to make the Ziggurat more than just the "Sharboneth Colony" (those of us who had the opportunity to see the setting before the Sharboneth came in will recall that they are not, in any fashion, necessary for the existence of the settlement as such!)

  • Sharboneth Retainers/Guard/Law Enforcement: I would like to see this faction step away from law enforcement, maintenance of order and distinguish itself from the Watch in Sanctuary. Perhaps they will begin treating those who are brought by portal differently than the Old Porters who arrive on the island. Now that the faction is pretty much established, why not begin pursuing Sharboneth's goals more aggressively in the Colony? Taxing the colony more heavily, and generating conflict aren't necessarily a good idea in the long run for the House, but it is my understanding that this thread is a brainstorm for ideas that will help make this faction more flavorful and foster conflict. Start treating the Colony like it's your backyard, and I'm sure the House will become quite different from the previous law enforcement factions we've seen on the two incarnations of EfU.

You'll notice these two thoughts compliment each other. I guess I would just like to see Sharboneth treat the Colony like they own the place (which they do, at present). Yes, I do recall instances of characters/entities/factions being literally chased out of the settlement by the Sharboneth, but the poor response on the part of the more 'freedom-loving' characters would suggest that a heavier hand is necessary in making House Sharboneth stand out on its own.

These ideas point to a reversal of the current trend towards order, and if they began gathering up steam, I believe we would see the settlement return to a state similar to the 'tabula rasa' we encountered when the new setting began.
Current PC: Acolyte Itziyal Neniarral

Pestilence

One thing I do know of though is that there will soon be more crime. When I looked at the forum talking on the factions with apps. I noticed it saying:

Unspecificed EFU:A Criminal Organization

I found that on the app forum so I do think that perhaps there may soon be more crime around if you know what I mean. I am not trying to be OOC and all, but I know that it will come up soon.

I can has fun?

1. The Stygians and other sea-faring factions should have their own individual maritime penal systems. If you step aboard their ships, you're subject to their rules, period.

2. There should be a larger number of exiled lower houses who collectively pay Sharbonneth for the maintenance of some loosely modified enforcement of Old Port's laws. Perhaps this arrangement is based on some stipulation Senuspur would not agree to, causing them to seek refuge on Ymph. More houses yields more opportunities for intrigue. The Sharbs, more than anyone else, would have both a financial interest in giving haven to these people and the opportunity to do it, creating tension between them and Senuspur.

3. We need a very visible, very public outlaw DM faction. Seekers?

Pestilence

Having the Seekers around again would be interesting. With the Seekers back there would be a Chaotic faction again. Perhaps they could have a SECRET home for them around? Seeing that there are so many unexplored places and secret areas I have found around.

9lives

How do you know there isn't one already?

DangerousDan

Let the Seekers die, people.
i walked one morning to the fair

Dr Dragon

Kiaring is right as soon as an NPC that is blue steps into the picture no one questions them. Pcs will form a government but are considered violating freedom but as soon as Blue Npcs show up Pcs back out in cowardly. For example people have raided imposssible dungeons of Red Npcs. But as soon as raiding blue Npcs is suggested ppl say "OH TO strong!" Etc. Like for example.


When Alecz came into power Pcs and Law enforcers where bickering about him yet did nothing against Thomas Alquivin owner of a bar of undead team good mostly turned a blind eye and team evil simply plotted their which was ridiculous. Because Pcs where all.



Or Freedom loving pcs loved freedom so much including a slaving Band of Duerger Mercs known as Fort Mur was allowed to operate and Pcs backed out in awww because of the might of Blue NPcs Yet when a call for Drow raiders from Traensfyr at the gates comes Ppl Blindly rush to defend from the force.




In my OP Ppl fear blue Npcs because they equal Permadeath.

Egon the Monkey

Yeah, I'm in full agreement with DrD here. Wow.

Non-hostile NPCs are powerful, often ridiculously so. For example, I have before now made IC tip-offs to Good factions about Zul'jin on a few PCs, but everyone's scared to face him because he's Badass. Fair do's. He's a Palemaster/Sorc with his ancestors on call. And yet if it was a DM posessed Knight of the Order who decided to open a Can Of SmiteTM on him, people would turn up.

However, a lot of NPCs seem way powerful compared to the PC population who are out there trashing hordes of monsters on a day to day basis. Back when we has the playerlist show, I noticed that Kingsman was a Level 10 fighter. Kingsman. The innkeeper. Who needed rescuing from monsters way back when. And who doesn't quest. Now, I can understand that "kingsman killed by griefer" is bad, but just make him unkillable outside of Dm posessions.

What I would love to see for law enforcement are "Redshirt" Blue NPCs. Non-hostile ones, who are up to no good and are made for the purposes of being arrestable/killable targets for PCs to go after. NPCs of level 6-8, with average-player grade supplies, not 30 potions of Elemental Shield. Red NPCs are mostly made to die, whereas Blue ones are mostly made to survive. We could use a blurring of boundaries.

We really do need more PC/NPC conflict, and not to have it restricted to when DMs decide to escalate a situation by bringing in NPCs and making a Shout. For the players to change the server, they need to be able to damage controversial NPC organisations to the same degree as player ones. We had a lot of rivalry when there was less DM intervention near the start of the server, but would it have been the same if the Amaunatori had been led by a couple of NPCs, or if Gaeseric, not Vandermark became Steward?.

Obviously for the purpose of stability we need NPCs, but IMO the solution is to have a backup NPC or faction plan in the wings and be prepared for a controversial NPC's death by PCs, not to make them nigh-unkillable. I understand it's more work for the DMs to have a "subs bench", but it would stop the oddness of:

"So, we just defeated TWO HUNDRED ORCS! What now?"
"Eliminate the two Evil Necromancers running the Mausoleum?"
"Er... Blue Aura of Badassery"
"Ah. Right. Let's go kill THREE HUNDRED GNOLLS! instead."

IxTheSpeedy

To bring it back to suggestions, I like what Thane posted about the four magistrates.  This really brings PC's into the mix for setting the direction for the server.  Of course, we have to be careful who gets appointed since you could really make players pretty miserable if you were a jerk about the position.

For everyone's convenience, i'll paste what he posted here:

-----------------------------
Magistrates

Four positions selected by the Court/Governor to act as judges of Capital Crimes and act as the judicial consul of the city. Led by one High Magistrate,Eumond Hamuranos, and three others, they receive lodging, storage and a small pay for their services at the newly reformed Courthouse. Ideally, a magistrate is named until death, however it is possible due to unforeseen problems of corruption or bad judgment that a magistrate be suspended from his services. Magistrate possess a modicum of authority over the guard to settle civil disputes.


- Act as Judge on Capital Crimes.
- Survey/Study current laws and make suggestions to the Court.
- Settle minor civil disputes
----------------------------------------

(As far as people not standing up to NPC's, I agree, people don't want to get stomped and usually, when you go against them, you do...)

Gippy

Randomly killing npcs has never gone over well -- should Cyrus have died to power quested dwarves? Should Thomas have been killed by the first paladin group that got 10 people togeather, buffed and charged? Did people not bemoan the death of all the cool npcs of efu?

Conflict, sedition, rebellion can all happen on a server with one ruler. Noble courts were rife with intrigue. Maybe you should take rebellion off the table, accept your sharboneth masters, and create conflict within that system. A buffed up bloodbath will not be the story you want.

PC underlords/barons that are exempt from island laws for them and there followers is excellent. PC judges are excellent.

Gippy

Randomly killing npcs has never gone over well -- should Cyrus have died to power quested dwarves? Should Thomas have been killed by the first paladin group that got 10 people togeather, buffed and charged? Did people not bemoan the death of all the cool npcs of efu?

Conflict, sedition, rebellion can all happen on a server with one ruler. Noble courts were rife with intrigue. Maybe you should take rebellion off the table, accept your sharboneth masters, and create conflict within that system. A buffed up bloodbath will not be the story you want.

PC underlords/barons that are exempt from island laws for them and there followers is excellent. PC judges are excellent.

Mort

This is all over the place once more! Stay focused people.

The Crimson Magician

[size=14]MORE CRIME. LIKE, WE NEED KRUNTO/WHATEVER (putrid_plum?) TO GET DRUNK AND STEAL HIS SHINIES.[/size]

Oh, and don't forget to tip the soup pan. We don't need soup on the upholstery.

Also, a nice theme would be medieval, but that just seems so bland and normal.

Maybe we should just get Sharboneth to give us a slum/ghetto where all the sickies and druggies and poor people go.

Joe Desu

A few thought out yet sporadic comments and one wish at the end.
 
Who should be in the Sharboneth Faction.
I would like to see fighters, rogues, wizards and clerics allowed in House Sharboneth.
 
Fighters for the Guard. You need to be able to pick up a hammer to knock down the nails.
 
Rogues for the guard, spies, and Speakers of the House. I good PR staff member is needed to provide some smooth talk to garner public support as well as bluff those bastards into the dirt.
 
Wizards that either provide Guard backup with buffs, divinationists to provide council, and as spies.
 
House Sharboneth appears to favor Umberlee, therefore any clerics should be followers of Umberlee.
 
Sphere of influence
I do not think it is appropriate to see guards outside the city patrolling. On missions perhaps, but there should not be enough soldiers to handle internal and external issues. If any patrols outside the city should be considered it would either be the Stygians, a Patricians group, or another paid mercenary group.
 
Relationship to Stygians
If the Stygians are paid mercenaries to protect the city and look outward, why are so many patrolling around inside? I would like to see them patrol the outer walls, but once inside they may be present, but need not patrol. That is for the House Guard, "those not strong or smart enough to actually be a Stygian". If the Stygians are always seen patrolling it may give the wrong impression that they care about laws being broken inside the city where they do not get paid for any action taken against some dirtbag. Course that all depends on what they are actually being paid to do.
 
Law
If Sharboneth is all about making money, then the main focus would be to have payments for most crimes. That way, the rich could do crime and pay for it and enjoy an ale afterwards. Why not pay first then do the crime. The poor would envy the rich or work to become a patrician. A little class warfare would be good. Of course sedition and rebillion would require the highest form of punishment. The factoid has them thinking they would have had more money so it might be the focus to build wealth quickly.
 
Wish to see:
Walk the plank
I also would like to see the plank. Sharboneth, or perhaps the Stygians, can make a prisoner walk the plank. The individual would then have an underwater adventure to see if they can actually make it to the shore of some foresaken locale. Let Umberlee decide their fate.
Could make for some interesting RP in not knowing whether a person is actually dead or not. Or at least others can pretend to be said person when they are not.

Not.Him.Again

The concept of a fuedal law enforcement system was mentioned earlier, it caused me to begin to think. Let us take the idea of a Noble House and run with it. You have a set of Armsmen right now, create a position under them in the House and call it Squires. Squires are either one of two catagories. Players that have had their application accepted OOC and have yet to earn it IG (but are clearly working on it and have taken the step of becoming a Squire IG) or players that are waiting application approval but have begun working on their goal IG. For an Armsman to achieve the next rank, the Armsman must succesfuly train at least one Squire to Armsman status. Squires are assigned Armsmen or recruited by the Armsman IG. The Squire is then personally trained by the Armsman until the Armsman believes the Squires training is complete, at that point the Squire is presented to a ranking member of the House who determines if the Squire is fit for service in the House. The idea is that the you institute a system where people remain under other people for the entire IG lives. You are recruited as a Squire by Armsman A, you become an Armsman yourself but still report/serve under the Armsman that recruited you. A big part of that Armsman being promoted is considering how well you are doing. In turn you are expected to go out and find a worthy Squire (or train one assigned to you). Thoughts on powers.

Squire:
- No offical power beyond being recognized as a possible recruit of the House.
- Expected to follow the order of their Armsman (if they ever hope to be excepted into the House).

Armsman:
- Same powers as currently have.
- Expected to have a Squire.
- Expected to train that Squire to Armsman level in the House, or dismiss the Squire and find a more competent candidate.
- If a Armsman has allready trained a Squire to Armsman level, expected to insure their now junior Armsman continues to uphold the Houses honor and aid said junior Armsman in training the junior Armsman Squire.

Higher Ranks:
- Whatever powers they have today.
- Expected to provide and continue aid their junior Armsman ect.

The idea is to have a feudal system instead of a militaristic one we have seen in the past. You are responsible first to your Armsman/Rank X person. Others of higher rank may command you if they hold higher rank than your Armsman, but it should be clear that the chain of command goes through your Armsman.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Some minor grammer issues.