Law Enforcement Brainstorm

[DangerousDan]

What needs to be avoided though is simply falling back into the archetypes of Sanctuary's factions.

To elaborate upon this, a faction of 'Law Enforcement Wizards' would probably be a bad idea in the current climate, purely because they've such an awfully hard act to follow. I felt that the Guard were the least popular DM faction purely by virtue of being a watered-down Watch, and the Sharboneth were a concious attempt to move away from that theme, although I do feel IG implimentation is somewhat lacking at the moment. The 'medieval' theme is what I personally wish to achieve right now, and any suggestions as to how we could do this better would be greatly appreaciated.

[IxTheSpeedy]

If we want to go in the medieval direction as far as law enforcement, and I agree, that would be cool, then wouldn't it be that everything has to come from the ruling house, in this case, the House Sharboneth.  They would appoint people to preside over trials, set laws, etc.  Basically someone like the second cousin to the head of the house would be a judge, etc.  Implementing this by having people submit an app to play a house relative or valued retainer that was appointed to be a judge in the colonies.  These would be seperate from the guard, or in charge of the guard to a certain extent.

Religious rule would be very cool as well, but it would have to come from the Sharboneth, they would appoint a church as the implementors of law or something along those lines.

I think the relatives of the house makes more sense given our setting since as far as I know, House Sharboneth isn't overly religious.   (Of course if they wanted to, I know a great church they could reach out to....)

[meow-mix]

I would truly like to see a bit of lawlessness.  After all, a noble house being the head of the government has many inherent drawbacks.  Foremost as it relates to law being that the main concern of the house should be its own financial interests and the preservation of the hierarchy.

As far as house members go, chasing petty criminals would be of low import.  Spying and counterspying on factions of size that could pose a threat to the influence of the house, rooting out seditionists, and military actions against large threats should be the main concerns.  Protecting the rights of merchants here and there, that might not be a big concern, unless they were allied with the House and had paid their dues.

I would like to see a legal system in which merchants paid for constabulary protection, and the roads were rife with highwaymen and brigands, and if you walked too far away from the guard house, you could be held up at knifepoint for your purse.  That is, of course, unless you are a PC with either deep pockets or vast social connections.

There needs to be room for the petty thug, not just the super underground criminal mastermind.  That way, you always have a chance to play "cops and robbers" when you are either a guard or a criminal.  So let's not so much "enforce the law" on a day to day basis, and more "hunt down the ones that matter."

The shape of the Legal System of House Sharboneth should be as follows.  PC members should not be guards, but more like magistrates.  Able to act as jury and judge, except when pursuing people of class, who are entitled to trial.  NPC guards should be almost nonexistent, except at the gates and when the city is under attack, and within the lit buildings of the ziggurat, whose patrons can be assumed are paying for the luxury.  I want to see some corruption, payoffs, internal investigations, inquisitions, spy versus spy, and cops and robbers.  No more "so and so stole loot from us on such and such quest" and more "so and so was talking smack about Lord Sharboneth" or "so and so has claimed a mine for his own company, and not handed it over to Lord Sharboneth."

My two cents,
Meow-mix!

[Letsplayforfun]

At first glance i would also add more public related penalties:
- being chained in public view for 10-15mn,
- public whiping,
- hanging protocole (where the victims' friends can react like in any good old fashioned movie),
- public pleading/ excuses ceremony,
- stoning of course, etc.

I also would see the law enforcement with a more colorful uniform. Maybe it's just me, but i spot stygians correctly, but not the others.

I would also very much like a more clearly oriented religious line to the Sharboneth rulership. Just having any faiths around without the local leader saying anything seems weird. It would also help shape clerical factions into the political agenda.

That's it for now.

[The Beggar]

A more medieval bent to the law enforcement faction would be cool, sort of emphasizing the retainer/liege lord facet perhaps.

I would like to echo this as well, it was the first thing that came to my mind after reading big H's post. Some thoughts I had on the overall feel:

Fluidity: Give the "peacekeeper" factions the fluidity to express the current situations of the ruling faction. If Sharboneth is a petty dictator and wants the place locked down with an iron fist, then that should be expressed in the majority of how interactions with his peacekeeping force. If he is here for monetary gain and really only wants peace enough not to interfere with his trading, then the overall feel should reflect that as well, perhaps comming down very hard on theives, piracy, etc (death) and perhaps not caring too much at all over brawls that end in the death of some low life in the gutter (offender gets fined), of course if that happens in an inn or bar that affects the patrons and makes them want not to come to the island for trade (impacting the bottom dollar), then the punishment might be very harsh indeed!

In it's current state I suppose I could see a very vassal/Lord theme to the laws, where he cares about his bottom dollar and image rather than dolling out punishments for every little thing.

NPC presence, but PC driven: Let the NPCs privide an overall guiding flavor, but allow the PCs to interact how they will and play their characters (to their benefit or detriment of course in any situation). I think this has always been done, and hope it continues.

We have a lot of merc presence on the island right now. I could easily imagine mercs deployed to hunt down criminals that the Lord wanted brought to him for judgement. Let the Retainers take the responsibility to hire adventurers to go out and do that.

Differences in the Guard, and Retainers: IMO House Retainers > Colony Guard. I've always gotten the feeling that the guard are like Army Reservists or national guard, paid to stand watch every so often against the dangers of the wild island and keep the walls manned and safe under the direction of the more capable Sharboneth retainers and mercs rather than taking on the aspect of the arm of the law. Let the Retainers of the Lord act in his name and carry out his laws, it would make the division of power more deliniated and present in the game, and cause some interfaction rivalry--we need some, lots of colony protective merc/retainer/guard types rolling around it seems.

That's all I got.

[Pestilence]

Having stuff like a war wizards in the guard would be interesting. I'd enjoy it personally because of :

• Buffs and spells
• Some intelligent souls in the guard
• The use of more magical items and devices understood by the hands of mages.
• Could go and bring up a new part of the House Sharboneth that is like the Magister's guild.

[Germain]

I would first and foremost like to see this implemented:

Magistrates

Four positions selected by the Court/Governor to act as judges of Capital Crimes and act as the judicial consul of the city. Led by one High Magistrate,Eumond Hamuranos, and three others, they receive lodging, storage and a small pay for their services at the newly reformed Courthouse. Ideally, a magistrate is named until death, however it is possible due to unforeseen problems of corruption or bad judgment that a magistrate be suspended from his services. Magistrate possess a modicum of authority over the guard to settle civil disputes.


- Act as Judge on Capital Crimes.
- Survey/Study current laws and make suggestions to the Court.
- Settle minor civil disputes

I think having PCs in place to handle the judicial side of the law enforcement will only further enhance the feel of a true player oriented environment. This will also allow the Sharboneth Retainers to carry out the true enforcement of the law vice the interpretation of the law.

In Medieval Society, at least that of England for example, those in charge of law and order believed that people would only learn how to behave properly if they feared what would happen to them if they broke the law. Even the ‘smallest’ offences had serious punishments. The authorities feared the poor simply because there were many more poor than rich and any revolt could be potentially damaging.

I would like to see the continued practice of public punishments carried out by the Sharboneth Retainers. Whether for minor infractions of the law or for capital crimes, I think it is important to see that the Lord's Laws are carried out by his men.

- Public lashings
- Perhaps make greater use of the stocks, as I have not seen it utilized yet
- Frequent patrols to display force and superiority

The ultimate factor in which I can simply echo is the lack of criminals in the first place. Without them it can make playing a law enforcement PC far to realistic for the sheer sake of boredom of walking in circles all day long.

[Semli]

It seems to me that House Senuspar as an expansionistic, mercentile group it was first portrayed as is interested in making certain coin flows into their pockets regularly and in large amounts.  To this end, they should make sure as many people clamor for Patricianship as possible.  By really imbuing these characters with additional rights and privledges that visibly give them authority beyond those of other PCs possess.  Essentially, they would hope after lining their pockets with gold that the Patricians would do a good job with their relatively limited judicial and executive powers, but when they dropped the ball the 'enlightened' House Sharboneth would get to appear on the scene and remove their Patricianship publically, appearing noble and wise.  Civil service and awarded forms of Patricianship should really be reserved for characters that have done a good deal to ensure House Sharboneth benefits to an extent approaching that value.

While 'medieval' forms of punishment might be sought to create a new theme with the faction, I honestly don't see why this should be.  Brutal punishments made by a quietly fearful ruling class are more the tools of a traditional monarchy, while my admittedly limited understanding is that the nobility that has risen out of Old Port is relatively young and likely more of a medieval middle class mindset; one where they have earned greater wealth and station than a traditional aristocracy and bothered by the fact they could not advance socially thanks to social codes and rights accorded only at birth.  If others come behind them now and achieve the same station, they would look to them with a grudging respect provided those individuals respect the powers that be.

I also believe factions should be as open as possible with whom they recruit to better facilitate the creativity of players.  I think most realize its an unwritten rule that really good concepts and well-liked characters can typically end up where they want, but I found hard cutoffs written on the website for some of the original EfU factions (non-divine, non-arcane, etc.) detrimental to this goal.  I feel the EfU:A factions are better worded and more open to a range of character classes, and this is a trend we should continue to support.

[domare]

I have given this thread a bit of consideration and I think there are a couple of areas that could be elaborated IG to create a more interesting RP server.  I think it is important for the player base to understand the significant and absolute rule the Count has over Old Port.  The Count achieves and maintains this through totalitarian rule, spies; locking up anyone he deems so, executing any he is concerned about, etc.  As such, anyone who knows anything about this is going to be looking to get the heck out of Old Port and stay out as long as possible. So, the Colony would seem much more attractive to many of Old Port who have been oppressed and discriminated against.  This could be expanded upon a bit IG to give a bit of a LE feel for Old Port.  Perhaps many criminals and persecuted religious types might flee to the Colony for the purpose of hiding, regrouping, counterattacking, etc.  This would create some Plots for PC’s to join these groups, spy on them, and/or leak information to the guard, etc.  

I see this relationship between Old Port and the Colony similar to the relationship England had with Ireland during the 1600’s.  So, when Governor Orted died and his government failed…The Count of Old Port had to select just the right house to oversee and rule “His” colony.  Failure to do so would result in absolute rebellion and civil discord against his interests.  With all of the Count’s concerns inside Old Port, the last thing he would want is a safe haven for his adversaries to stage from.  As such, it would seem logical that the Count selected a house that he could trust (Sharboneth), who had a history of not dealing in slaves (would be popular with many of the Commoners of the Colony) to rule over the Colony.  I would think that House Sharboneth would not stop in the hostile take over.  He would move into the Gobsquat, Docks, East, etc. and hunt down all monster type races and lay claim to any resources.  At the present time, I feel as if they are currently in a idle pattern.  

With an active Guard PC, I have to say I was a bit disappointed in the lack of significant mistrust or anarchy with House Sharboneth conducting a hostile takeover of the Colony.  I would have thought the brief moment in time that we had no government in place, many would have praised the freedom from "Nobility" oppression.  Additionally, I would have thought that the former Guard Captain Fyoris and Marshal Sullivan would have been popular with many of the commonors for keeping the Colony safe from the Shambling mounds, Orc, and Nightriser attacks in the absence of the government.  However, I did not get that feeling when House Sharboneth quickly brought both Fyoris and Sullivan up on charges of Treason.  I didn’t see any overt opposition or mistrust from the public (NPC or PC) pertaining to this action or of House Sharboneth.  I think plots along these lines could still be played out IG.        

As it pertains to the Guards, House Sharboneth, and the server…I think that the Colony should have a more rebellious underground feel rather the pending doom feel from the Orcs, Nightrisers, Hbala, etc.  As it stands now, you have three very powerful civil defense organizations (Stygians, Guards, and the Order).  The entirety of these three organizations could be a bit stifling for the more Chaotic and rebellious elements of society.  

My two cents worth…

Domare

[dragonfire9000]

The Po Po haven't been a real powerful force in any of my characters' lives as they've both been fairly good. I've known several members of the Sharbs, but I've never seen any good police beatdowns, outstanding breakage of the law, or arrests. The Bounty Hunters idea seems a good one, but I've never even seen the bounty board, so I wouldn't know. Perhaps, if we could get some good terrorists, an anti-terrorist squad could be formed!

[Gippy]

Ultimately I would like to see many ways to 'get out' of crimes. Be they money, slavery or pledges of fealty. Too often interesting criminals just die, get executed, when they really have more of a story to tell -- IMO. I have always had a problem with large punishments for tiny things. Assault, for instance, is pretty fun for all -- when you raise the stakes though so that simple violence is executable then there is little IC incentive not to leap to FD.

[VanillaPudding]

To elaborate upon this, a faction of 'Law Enforcement Wizards' would probably be a bad idea in the current climate, purely because they've such an awfully hard act to follow. I felt that the Guard were the least popular DM faction purely by virtue of being a watered-down Watch, and the Sharboneth were a concious attempt to move away from that theme, although I do feel IG implimentation is somewhat lacking at the moment. The 'medieval' theme is what I personally wish to achieve right now, and any suggestions as to how we could do this better would be greatly appreaciated.

Colony guards - Maintain civil order of the laws within the colony and it's immediate area.

Add in a separate wing of Sharboneth that focuses on the lands outside of the colony. Still holding normal guard 'powers', but rarely using them and often being a little more chaotic, looking the other way as if it "isn't their job". They could be a little more ruthless and have goals to claim resources and land for Sharboneth and often act as judges alongside the patricians (as suggested earlier, who may fill the role of some sort of minor nobles). They could very easily be a totally seperate faction with simple loose ties to Sharboneth or bound by some sort of contract to the ruling lord of the Colony. Give them some perks, immunity to arrest from normal guards and outranking them or something.  This is where your wizards / sorcerers / rangers would better fit.

Patricians - Please adjust them, make them a little more appealing and also a little harder to obtain. Give them immunity to immediate arrest from the regular guards, immunity to petty crimes charges. Allow them to be part of a jury in the court system and also have input on changes to the law.

Holy Members - Appointed by the ruling house. While Sharboneth might seek to appoint followers or Tyr as judges and a Supreme judge, maybe the Stygians would use members of the Order or paladins of Hoar.


I don't know, that's just a combination of some things I picked up out of the other threads, or at least my view on some of it, and I think al ot of it adds in to help faction plots and opens IG oppertunity for characters.

[Luke Danger]

We need NPC patrols that cross into wilderness areas eventually. In the Mideval times, especially with banditry common, a few soldiers on patrol along major roads was common . . . usually. I think that if the Sharbs cared about profit they'd do some patrols.

[DangerousDan]

That would make sense if there was any trade on Ymph proper ATM, which there is not.

[Mort]

This is all over the place.