Raise Level Cap on Behemoth Spider Quest

[Ashes of Athas]

I will admit that this is an entirely self serving suggestion - and if this seems wrong in some way, feel free to tell me.

I am suggesting the behemoth spider dungeon increase in level cap from eight to nine.

Having recently reached level nine, I have ran into a problem - it is incredibly difficult to come by money. At this point, most dungeons are closed off to you, and those that are available are challenging (Orog Dungeon and Sand Crypt come to mind). I realize EFU is balanced around the use of consumables, the problem is at nine, the amount of resources needed to do the dungeons available become very high, and the methods available to procure consumables is basically zero.

There are a few exceptions. The sewer defense quest is available, but unless you face goblins, you expend many more resources than you gain (and even with goblins, I still tend to expend more healing supplies helping low level characters than I gain). There is the Shaga quest, though with travel costs and a null magic zone, spellcasters are essentially dead weight.

It causes a few problems - paying rent on buildings becomes extremely difficult. Gathering crafting supplies for alchemy is another problem as you cannot enter lower level dungeons, and you can't even offer to a job and pay new characters to gather them for you, because they are better at making money than you are.

The Behemoth Spider Quest is one of the few quests where characters can come out ahead a little bit in resources - and if increased to level nine, would allow characters at level to slowly build up resources to use for adventuring/dm events/etc.

[Zango_Unchained]

Hitting nine means your pc has reached a level of power and expertise that is to be respected and feared throughout the playerbase you are a representation of your class at a high level or a faction leader. As you level exp/gold levels drop off and force you to interact and make money off interactions rather then pve.

Thats my impression of it, and I thought it would help put into perspective why a lot of quests are 2-7 and 3-8 and sit at that unless they are of spectacular difficulty.

So Behemoth spider ending at eight I think is a appropriate, but perhaps there should be some level of difficulty in acquiring resources via scripted methods at high levels to force more interaction?

[Ashes of Athas]

I don't disagree with what you have said - and that is basically the response I have expected.

I think the real issue is that having a lack of money (and seemingly no way to earn it) is a hindrance to that interaction, than a catalyst of it. Setting up the Temple of the Weave is one example that has been a lot of fun, especially in providing ways to interact with new characters/players - a place for Rond's Azuth sermons, providing basic arcane scrolls to new Sanctuary arrivals, purchasing temple equipment from William, hiring adventurers to gather alchemical supplies - these are all interactions that have been lost, so to speak.

[The Samophlange]

Trying to encourage interaction is a good thing, but quests are just that. You are forced to gather people together to see to some task, and a lot of good roleplaying can come from it. It is the way a lot of characters first meet on the server, and provides reasons for characters who otherwise not spend a lot of time together to find a common activity they can do removed from faction affairs.

That said, the problem isn't 'I can't gain money at level 9'. It's 'I can't not lose money'. If you play a character who is uninterested or unwilling to go into the Lowerdark, to my knowledge that leave Orogs, Sewers, and Shagga that can be done at level 9. Shagga excludes caster types, and Orogs is quite difficult and not many people run it. This leaves only the Sewer quest, which tends to yield 100 gold before you consider the supplies you use on it.

It puts higher level characters in the unfortunate position where they can't really do anything to make money, because everything that they can run would cost them more than they would gain from it. Not every character is going to have a good IC way to make money outside of quests, either. I think either increasing the Spider cap, even if it gave level 9s no extra EXP, or making a new dungeon that could take level 9s would greatly help alleviate this problem.

[Siren]

It's probably the way it's meant to be. I think there's plenty of ways to earn money without relying on scripted quests, but you mostly have to either be self-sufficient at a certain craft or rely on other characters, I suppose.

You could be a merchant, you could brew potions, scrolls or wands, you could find a job working under another character, you could claim bounties, you could even rob another player or dabble in herbalism and alchemy. There are a multitude of EFUSS points to invest in different trades, ranging from carpentry to fishing or even art.

As a wizard specially, there are so many ways to make money... You could sell teleporting services, charge for identified items (plenty of players offer rewards for this by default), the server even lets you write a book, you could literally write traveling guides or books on the monsters of the Underdark and their weaknesses to make people aware of certain threats.

In your case, working at a temple, there's a million ways for you to raise money. Ask for tributes to the Gods you worship, host religious events... If it doesn't work, include new Gods at your temple, desperate measures for desperate times.

Anyway, I've listed a few activities through which you could earn money, all far more interesting, rewarding and less tedious than spamming a single quest every reset. Chances are that to earn money through this quest you would want to take only one or two characters with you, a quest that's sort of only possible with spellcasters in the party... If they start hitting level 9 and running this quest only with one or two close characters to maximize rewards, then it'd be a little awkward.

Anyway, yeah, if money can't be raised through any of the ways listed above, I rather fail to see how spamming one quest would be the solution. I think the limited quest availability is good because it doesn't let high-level PCs become wallflowers. It's always been a pet peeve of mine in other servers, to walk by a tavern and see a bunch of drab cookie-cutter hero archetype high level PCs happily chatting, glittering and sparkling with all their buffs on. Here you don't really see it happen, fortunately.

[tinfoilhat]

I'm kind of curious if the things stated in some above posts about expectations of PCs actual character level and for lack of a better term 'rp responsibility' being tied together is the staff's policy. I'd always assumed that expectation came from post level 10, as you have to app for anything past that.

Speaking from actual experience at being at the fabled level nine for a time(if only very briefly!): There seems to be this stigma against the higher level characters among a few players, people seem to want them to have a more frustrating OOC experience because that's some sort of price they have to pay or something for the privilege of having 8, 9 or 10 on your character sheet. The fact is I enjoy doing the dungeons - roleplaying with pals or new people, killing the bad guys, getting the loot. I also managed, through some luck and a healthy dose of paranoia, not to die until recently. I always worried as a newish player that I was being judged OOCly because of my eagerness to go questing and good fortune.

If it weren't for my perk and wages I would have probably been in the same situation as Ashes of Athas. From the outside it seems so simple to come up with millions of ways to make gold, but when you actually put those things into practice in-game you'll find that what little gold you make from those services barely offset the costs of potions and consumables. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm sure if you put a ton of time in you'd make a profit.. It's just incredibly frustrating and seems no less "tedious" than running a quest, which some people find fun even after the 5th time.

This came out a bit longer than expected, but I don't think it's too much to ask for. It's a couple hundred gold every day or two, not counting any expenses from actually doing it. I don't think we need to worry about Vesper or any other high level PC driving a buffed up Mercedes Benz through Sanctuary anytime soon.

[Stranger]

I've discovered many excellent sources for gold and supplies for higher levels in-game. I've never reached level 8, but economic support for level 9 and 10 outside of crafting is quite existent.

Just the other night, for example, we crafted ten use serious healing instruments at no material cost.

[wundyweiss]

The only problem i have with this suggestion is that there ARE quests for you to do, but you are only requesting this to have something easily farmable / accessible to you, with little to no risk for yourself when doing it. There are plenty of high level quests which offer good rewards but at a much more higher risk. I understand you worked hard for that level nine, but to me it seems that this will only serve people who don't want to take risks and get the good stuff while they're at it.

So, no. I don't think you should get your cake and get to eat it too. If you want coin, supplies, all that stuff, step out of the comfort zone and strive to do the harder stuff instead of quest X/Y/Z every single reset. Sorry if this is sounding harsh, but it's basically the simplest way to put it.

[Gloinar]

Wundy. Sorry to point a flaw in your post, but there arent plenty of 9+ quests which offer GOOD rewards. That's part of the problem the people above are speaking about.

[Siren]

It's not so much "RP responsibility" as it is a responsibility for assuring your character has a presence in the server after growing in power... People always want more for their characters and to keep progressing, it's why a lot of people play "rpgs", but I don't think holding a high-level should come easy, specially not in a server that's heavy on PvP like EfU is.

I've had one PvP experience since being here and I'll say that I got no fun out of it. I wasn't bitter about it, but I didn't have fun either and was just rolling along with it, hoping it'd end soon. I don't want to go too into detail but I was killed while stuck in an emote, writing, without a single exchange of words, by a high-level character that did nothing but run around the module, checking every area, until running into me and blowing me up with a succession of fireballs as I tried to roleplay... And there you have another hero of Sanctuary, lol. No, it wasn't enjoyiable and I permanently lost my character over it. And yes, I miss the character still.

So yeah, with the PvP policies of EfU, I think it shouldn't be easy to hold a high level. Sure, Vesper has nothing to do with the example I listed above and I'm sure she would use the money to create roleplay, but there are other level 9 characters around.

If you just want to "kill the bad guys" and "get the loot" like stated above, then you can ask to be deleveled and suddenly you're able to take on all your favourite quests again. There shouldn't be tweaks to increase the level cap of the easier quests so that high-level PCs can continue to progress, it just makes for a very unappealing environment. If staying at these levels is made any easier, then powerbuilding will become more common... I don't enjoy powerbuilding, I'm bad at it and I don't see a point to it... What I have fun with is bringing a character to life by customising its skills and abilities, I like seeing how different they end up from each other... I've had fun playing spellswords with 40HP, rapier-wielding rogue/clerics, illusionist sorcerers that don't fall into being the usual transmutation buffbots for optimised runs, and I sometimes feel like I would have hit a higher level if I just played a 20STR barbarian or pure cleric with the "best" domains... Yet I don't, because I like roleplaying characters and pick what makes sense for them, not be an optimized class. As it is I've also been discouraged by players to roll such characters, so I don't want to feel even more at a disadvantage. Roleplay should bring rewards, not optimized questing... At least that's how I feel about it and that's why I advocate for making it hard to be high-level... It's nothing against anyone, just think it's the only way to make things fair.

[petey512]

I think there are a lot of characters who would pay good gold for the services of any level 8 or higher character. A spell caster in particular. Just my two cents.

[tala_kai]

Wundy. Sorry to point a flaw in your post, but there arent plenty of 9+ quests which offer GOOD rewards. That's part of the problem the people above are speaking about.

I think there are. But if that's the problem, the suggestion should be about adding more rewards for lvl 9+ quests, which this suggestion is not about.

In my opinion there are more than enough quests you can do as lvl 9, and it's fine if most of them are challenging, they probably should be. I have a difficulty to see what's the problem with them. People don't want to do them? Or is it the fear of death and xp loss?

[wundyweiss]

Wundy. Sorry to point a flaw in your post, but there arent plenty of 9+ quests which offer GOOD rewards. That's part of the problem the people above are speaking about.

I disagree, but going into the topic would be telling of what the quests reward. I've done most of the higher end content and I don't think it's bad or awful, it's just more difficult and most people don't want to do it in fear of death. Which is wise and totally IC, but asking for something else to get reward at the higher end of the game is a bit much in my book. If you want reward from scripted stuff at the later levels, you shouldn't be able to rely on the easier content to do it. It enables people to 'take it easy', and leads to people farming that easier content to ride to the later levels.

This would be ORCS TWO all over again, if this was the case. A higher level quest, but capable of being farmed repeatedly by ALL levels for easy supplies and loot.

[Moonlighter]

Wundy. Sorry to point a flaw in your post, but there arent plenty of 9+ quests which offer GOOD rewards. That's part of the problem the people above are speaking about.

I can name at least five, and I don't claim to know everything about the game. They're just difficult so people don't like to do them.

[Pandip]

I admittedly haven't had a level 9 PC in EFUR so I don't know the very specifics of the situation, but I feel like someone who has hit that point in their PC's career should be pushing for exciting things. Whether that's encouraging a group to conquer a very difficult SQA or something else is another discussion entirely, but grinding through a very brief, arguably low-risk quest every reset for gold definitely isn't it.