Nerf Elsbeth’s Chronicle of Companions

[AsheandCinders]

As it stands I think this song is far too good as It provides amazing defence buffs, while also providing an unresisted damage bonus. This makes it near unarguably the best song to use in almost any situation

I would suggest the AC bonus be reverted to vs evil only as listed on the song sheet, and the damage type changed to physical and/or reduce the damage and AB bonus.

This would maintain its niche and theme as a defensive buff for a large group holding the line against evil, while giving other songs more opportunity to shine offensively.

[MAGIC]

I would argue that giving it physical damage instead of positive would be a buff in most non-Mupp situations as the physical damage bonus would work on archers as well.

This song is by far the best pick in almost every situation. +30 temp hp is never not good, people take chip and chunk damage all the time. On top of that it has the standard +2 ab, +2 dmg and also has +3 nat ac and +2 universal saves. No other song comes close to it.

The song offering an unresisted damage type versus Mupps is just icing on the cake and in itself not the reason why the song is so good.

[VanillaPudding]

Don't nerf, make other songs on par :)

[Haldar]

It doesn't affect ranged attacks, so I usually just roll with the normal song, which adds +2 bludgeon to ranged as well. Important in raids/defense.

Also at lvl 11 the normal song is insane because of the +2 dodge AC. (Rare, I know)

Elsbeth's AC doesn't stack with barkskin.

All in all, I don't think its that big of a deal, that song. Mainly good for killing mupps.

I do hope that there's other songs hidden on the server that are better than this one.. it was my hope for a while but I never found any.

[Moonlighter]

every other song sucks, is the thing. like every single last one

EDIT: expanding this so it doesn't look like a shitpost but bard songs don't add damage to your PC if you already have +damage of a damage type, which makes any song that gives +fire damage trash because flame weapon is so common.

then you have to consider if the stuff you're fighting has some random elemental resistance for the other songs, or they give less AB or whatever.

elsbeths always adds damage to your char sheet unless someone has positive flame weapon, positive is rarely resisted, adds The Good AB, and also does some other random nice stuff too that can save peoples lives. at level 10 there is no reason for a bard to use any other song. maybe like, the heal over time song, if you want to sustain your party inbetween big battles. otherwise why would you bother.

thing is, i think it'd be better to just bring the other songs up to parity. they all suck for no reason

[MAGIC]

Also at lvl 11 the normal song is insane because of the +2 dodge AC. (Rare, I know)

Nope it's actually Natural AC

[AsheandCinders]

Bringing all the songs in line with this one while maintaining their unique niches and making sure they all have a situation to shine would be amazing,  But asks far more of the DMs than just lowering one song down a little to give others a reason to be used.

I'll happily suggest a full bard song review when I can at least give in depth suggestions as to what can be changed where instead of just going "this is bad, fix it."

[Moonlighter]

i don't think calling for the nerfing the only song that is better than default bard song consistently is going to solve the problem. all the bards will just go to default song.

[AsheandCinders]

The fact of there being one song consistently better than others is itself the issue though. The whole point of having a whole catalogue of bard songs is Variety.

If people then choose to just go default because the still incredibly good defensive song isn't a catch all solution to every problem anymore that's a player side thing.

I'm not saying the nerf is a perfect solution, I'm all for raising up all bard songs to be best song in their own situations, but it is a solution that doesn't require asking the DMs to drag through very old systems with a fine tooth comb to there being one near universally best song, compared to default being just OK at everything but not best at anything.

[Tala]

Hi. We're happy to take a look at the songs, but it's not currently a priority. We have some epic stuff in store for all of you.

It's true that the Elsbeth song might need some tweaks (temp HP might be too high, positive damage is a bit of an oversight since we're using it for ash storms), but to put things in perspective:
* On chapter start people said they're less likely to use it due to the amount of PCs required for the bonus stuff. Naturally in raids this is no longer the case, and if this is the ideal song of choice in raids, this is fine.
* No matter what is done, there will always be a song that's considered 'the best', and this has been true for the entire time of EFU. There have been steps to mitigate it, and indeed sometimes certain songs were indeed just too much, but healthier to also accept that this is the case.

Still, this is not a bad conversation and there have some been good pointers here. I only urge to try and approach with positive vibes and avoid an "everything sucks" mentality, as it usually doesn't help to get the point across and get us less interested in the topic.

[Egon the Monkey]

i don't think calling for the nerfing the only song that is better than default bard song consistently is going to solve the problem. all the bards will just go to default song.

Given how often I see them use the other songs in the right situations, I doubt it.

• Catchy tune's massive Reflex, immunities and +DEX is amazing in the right spot.
• Rat Prince song is really really good in small groups for throwing tar-pit summons at mobs while exploring.
• Ballad of the Great Ash feels underused given it's Free Blur in lots of places, and ISTR stacks with blur as it's 5/+2

I think part of the issue here is the tendency for 'high threat' problems to often actually be 'have strong HP or Just Die' problems, which makes 'a boatload of temp HP' the best mitigation. Like, if you're facing something with 25AB, AC isn't going to save you.Not much saves you from a Molten Crit but this song just might. So I think the reason this one stands out is that it can visibly save you from the otherwise Frustratingly Unavoidable Deaths. Why does Barb have such a rep as good tanking for hard places? Because when things Get Real, having 200+ effective HP when you count DI saves your ass.