bring back my drink suppy cup addiction

[Pandip]

We went from having -999 strength to having -0 strength. It'd be neat to find a happy medium. -4 strength for a little bit? Even -2 would be nice.

Thematically, I want to feel the burn of no longer seeing the Valley of Paradise and having to rely on the Sisters for my fix. The bite to the Drink seems to have been lost here; I don't even pay attention to when the addiction hits anymore because it seemingly doesn't matter.

[NeedForGreed]

As an outside observer, the effects of the Drink were compelling and scary. I miss that.

[Sunburst]

The way withdrawal mechanics currently work, I think that it's all or nothing. Either the addiction check will crush you completely or it will barely inconvenience you.

I'm surprised that the lead player of the Balladeers would request that the Drink go back to being an orbital elbow drop.

Are you sure you want that?

[Pandip]

Given the two extremes (assuming it's too much of a hassle to rework the system in any meaningful way), I prefer the oribtal elbow drop of being a crippled addict over having the Drink washed away as irrelevant.

It was cool. It was thematic. It generated drama. I do not think it's good for the faction if the Drink becomes a thing that nobody interacts with or cares about.

[caesaropapist]

As someone who was permanently at like -98% movement speed from it I think you people are evil

[Vegan_Snickerdoodles]

The penalty being that devastating was a negative to the roleplay, especially since it was not intended. The Drink remains one of the most controversial in-character topics without it needing to have the mechanics of a glitched doom-poison that reduces bones to jello.

The roleplay was not made more interesting by bugged effects making it appear cripplingly harmful. That was boring if anything, because it stripped the topic of any nuance and made it too heavily gamified for purposes of opposition. This is better. Let things be good.

[cmenden]

As a counterpoint here:

if it's good with minor downsides, that makes it much harder for PCs to resist, and I think reps the idea better than having it be something that's kinda terrifying that PCs would have good reason not to touch

A lot of "drugs" in efu are deeply unpleasant, and I just avoid them on every pc, because I hate withdrawal even when it's doing relatively small things like like -1 to saves or -5% move speed

I think I just don't know why the Sisters would make a Drink that is really harmful to people!

[Egon the Monkey]

Yeah,

if it's good with minor downsides, that makes it much harder for PCs to resist

Yeah, the EfU drugs generally kind of read like an early '90s Just Say No campaign, rather than a controversy generator. If something's downsides so vastly outweigh the benefits, you look like either a cultist or a chump for choosing to use it. It's terrible, why not ban it? On the other hand, look at all the fantastic items with downsides, where PCs will happily trade off skills for saves or vice versa. Because the risk is, perhaps, worth it. And then it really might get you into trouble based on what was not, originally, a bad bet.

Drug addiction checks are a save-or-suck effect where the first failed save sucks really hard, then it scales up each time you do more. So the absolutely critical thing is to never, ever fail that first check or you're in for a world of pain until you acquire a ton of saves gear. Also unless you've got the meta knowledge of what the DCs and effects are, you better be ready to RP out the hangover from Hell if you so much as try one dose.

Current Mechanics

• (Pass Will save) Not Addicted, No Problem
• (Fail Will save) L1 Addiction, Horrible Penalties
• (Fail Will save while at L1 Addiction) L2 Addiction, It's Even Worse

If that first level of addiction gave you the nag messages but no penalty, people would have the chance to back out or push their luck. To go 'whoops I'd better take a break from this stuff'. Rather than the three options of "Refuse", "Be a Saves Build With Primary Will Save" or "Penalties forever". And even for the saves build, those pure will DCs are rough.

Compare to:

• (Pass Will save) Not Addicted, No Problem
• (Fail Will save) Slight Craving You get the Will saves and nag message of 'You need your X fix!' but no mechanical penalty
• (Fail Will save while Craving) L1 Addiction, It's Shit

If a failed save resulted in a 'danger zone' level I think we'd see PCs going 'might be useful' and arguing over whether mysterious hallucinogenic nunwine is a good or bad idea.  As it is your character concepts are 'straight edge' or 'Byron off his face on laudanum again'

[Pandip]

reupping my conviction on this suggestion.

increase the duration of the bonus when you drink the drink
BUT, if the addiction hits and you don't sate it, give -2 strength that trails off to nothing after a short period of time

I miss the message notifying me about the addiction half the time. Having it hit the character sheet, if only temporarily, would emphasize that nagging urge to pull out the flask and drink, which I think would add back that missing oomph without making it crippling.

[MAGIC]

My idea - as someone who has played both a Balladeer and a Sister - is this:

Using the Drink can give some nice temporary euphoric related buffs - and it creates a "This Reset Only" token in their inventory that they can later use to "tap into" the existing effects for a burst of inspiration in battle.

This would separate the act of bestowing and partaking of the Drink from the mechanical, combat-oriented effects. There is a dichotomy there, where the players want it to be this sacred, ritual act - and they also want to use it in the middle of battle.

Perhaps the drug penalties could be brought back or upped, but the penalties would be mitigated if they have the "This Reset Only" token in their inventory?

[Zickery]

the sisterhood, a faction all about appearances to the point it is actually self-defeating at times, would not make or distribute a drink with that kind of debuff. it would not be in character. it would also not line up with the lore

there are plenty of reasons already to dread the drink ic without making it a undesirable mechanical nuisance.

[Ioannes]

I think it's fine the way it is now.