Fighter- Dual wielder perk

[VanillaPudding]

Just wanted to suggest a few changes to this perk as it is quite underwhelming compared to a lot of them. I know not everything is meant to be equal, but you know .... :)



The bonus from the perk  doesn't hit both weapons which may be a bug, but if not is rather counter intuitive to the very name of the perk. I'd suggest this just be changed to a flat 2 damage to both weapons. In current form you can't use it with flame weapon and adding a flat 2 damage type / letting it stack wouldn't be overly potent but would maintain the flavor of the idea. It would also allow it to not be completely useless while questing with allies that have magic. In addition, the deflection bonus is negated by both Parry skill and magic alike, so once again is mostly a useless addition in times of importance or if you have parry skill. Possibly change the usable perk bonus to 1 dodge AC instead?

Secondly, the +2 off hand attack bonus only works when unbuffed. Magic weapon and other effects do not stack with it (as seen on character sheet / tested in combat log) Once again, this isn't terrible while totally unbuffed but is fully useless / negated while using magic which as everyone knows, is whenever anything of importance is happening.  I'd suggest that this be changed to either stack completely or to provide a flat 1 AB instead of the 2 AB to offhand, or another fitting alternative :)

Perk listed below

"Fighter Perk "/c fighter_perk fire|acid|electrical|cold"

Gain +1d4 elemental damage for 2 turns. Overrides existing bonus.
If held, off-hand weapon receives +2 Deflection AC for 5 turns. Defaults to fire, changing text after voice command will change the bonus. "


Level 8

+2 off-hand attack bonus     

[The Old Hack]

This strikes me as quite reasonable. While +2 deflection is not useless, getting a +1 deflection bonus from items is extremely common with the current items. Replacing it with +1 Dodge would be of similar power. It would be quite potent combined with Shield potions, but I do not think unreasonably so.

[Tala]

Dual-Wielder is the 2nd most popular perk so probably fine as is.

[creme bulette]

Dual-Wielder is the 2nd most popular perk so probably fine as is.

I don't think this is necessarily indicative of its power, but rather a hunger for a dual-wielding build to be represented in EFU.

As it stands, the primary benefit that this perk gives is the ability to take 13/14 Dexterity rather than needing to commit to 15 to dual wield properly and the 5% damage immunity. This is underwhelming considering the fact that the rest of the perk doesn't play well with being buffed. So while the unbuffed floor is higher, the ceiling more or less remains the same. The perk just feels littered with odd idiosyncrasies that arguably make it better to just commit to a double-weapon with a different perk.

[Arslefjun]

Freeing up 3 attribute points on creation, a free feat and getting 5% DI seems plenty to me.
Maybe its not the strongest perk in all different scenarios but its definitely one of the stronger ones, imo.

[VanillaPudding]

Yes thats all well and good. My general concern was that the two aspects of the perk were not really working. Notably that the perk usage itself doesn't do anything on the off hand which is strange for something called dual wielder, and the ab bonus is non stacking which has typically been a bug rather than a feature in other perks or systems that gave ab bonuses. They both seem to be oversights or mistakes rather than intentional, but if not then no worries!

[Talir]

The +2 attack bonus for off-hand stacks with other attack bonuses. Tested just now with bless and aid, happy to test again if you think this is wrong. All attack bonus effects stack, which most if not all the perks use.

The perk usage should not stack with flame weapon as it is basically a free flame weapon.

You have two options when it comes to dual wielding:

1) two weapons
2) double-sided weapon

The perk effect reflects these two choices. Flame weapon would apply to both ends on a double-sided weapon, but for two weapons it would give one side flame weapon and the other +2 deflection.  Both very good bonuses.

This perk has seen some of its inherent qualities lessened over time. Since parry now gives deflection bonus, you can get the similar effect permanently through enough points there. Likewise the special duplicate flame weapon and other stuff on both weapons when dual wielding was instead made a general thing.

Maybe it would be a good thing that flame weapon applies to both weapons with the perk effect. But someone else would have to make a decision/implement it.

This is however a perk in no need of buffing as it is number two in popularity and beating number three with nearly double the amount of players taking it.

[Electrohydra]

I assume that the +AB is applied on the weapon itself, which means it would stack with Bless and Aid, but not Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon.

[Talir]

It is not. It is an attack increase effect on the off-hand modifier. Put on the character. It is similar to bless and other such spells.

[VanillaPudding]

It is not stacking with magic weapon. Images below - Not to derail this to a bug report, but part of the reasoning for the suggestion was that it simply wasn't working. It seems to be a bug rather than anything else however.


Normal progression of 11/6 main hand 13 offhand - A correct +2 AB to the offhand



After magic weapon applied -

Now the progression moves to 12/7 main hand and stays at 13 off hand, the same as if magic weapon was not applied.

[Talir]

Yes, you have found a bug.

Attack bonus effect on off-hand does not stack with item attack bonus (temporary or permanent). On-hand probably has the same problem. Misc/all does not, otherwise bless would be affected as well.

I don't think this is a bug we can fix.