Normalizing Retirement

[Random_White_Guy]

There's a phenomenon on EFU I'd like to address: Retiring PCs is Okay. In fact I'd go so far as to say it's beyond okay and it is something more people should accept/consider. There's a serious problem that occurs when PCs who are bored of their character just want to "Go on a rampage until they get killed", or pull of "One last job", or want to throw down one last challenge to go out in a blaze of glory.

There are times you absolutely shouldn't quit your PC: At peak conflict or if you have a ton of foes or if you're actively executing/robbing PCs and just vanish to avoid any punishment.

But what of the other end? What if your plot is crumbling, if your friends dying, or if EFU is just starting to suck?

I'd like to kick this up here in general discussion because there's many things that occur which can be solved by retirement.

- Firstly: If you're at a loss for a character or you cling to it too long, you can become exceedingly salty. EFU is a game, it's meant to be fun, at the end of the day if you're not having fun and trying to white knuckle your way through your PC it just makes you miserable which can bleed into other facets. It's entirely okay to say "This has run its course" or "This was better on paper than in practice" or otherwise. Playing a character that makes you miserable will just make everyone else miserable.  If it takes you too long to find a paththen either take a break from EFU for a few RL days or consider retiring your character. Hitting your head on a wall over and over will just make you more upset. It isn't "Letting the DMs down", it isn't "Letting your friends down". Sometimes shit doesn't work.

- Secondly: Going out in a blaze of glory, while fun for you, can be utterly unfun for anyone around you. Imagine you're playing a PC you're bored of and you just want to go out in a blaze of glory after your foe. You pull off a flawless hit and instead of losing you win. What then? The PC you killed is out a PC, your PC is still alive, and a character you wanted to hang up "With style" now is still alive and someone else's character is dead. It's not considered a respectable way to end your PC and on the grand scheme of things I'd call it a dick move. There's so many ways to die, ride off into the sunset, or otherwise on EFU. "Lemme just die trying to FD this guy i've been conflicitng with" never comes with the follow thought of "Shit I won, what now?"

- Third: Death sucks on EFU. If you're in a death spiral losing 10s of thousands of XP every few days, hang it up or take a break or roll an alt or anything. You'll just make yourself miserable which spreads fast to others.

- Fourth: Do not "challenge people to duel"s because your character has hit a roadblock. Making threats, negotiating with, or otherwise actions of a rational person is useless against PCs who are seemingly throwing their lives away, and doubly so if it's PCs who are "at a loss" of what to do next. It breaks the immersion of the world if PCs who are going to be retired anyway want to make one last big production of things rather than just logging out or riding off into the sunset. I don't make Duelist PCs often but I had two very different PCs in a very similar situation both come to the same conclusion. "My friend died, instead of going after the target of my wrath, you're here and I duel you it's your fault". in two days I had two PCs jump to the same conclusion. I tried to make threats, I tried to reason, the line was drawn in the sand.

One PC I beat and I was told "Hey fun to build your legacy, if it's any consolation I wasn't going to kill you, but with X and Y gone..."

One PC I lost to and was told "I'm so sorry I thought you were going to crush me" and it lead to this awkward 6 minute OOC thing where the PC and I were OOC talking about what came next while an IC Peanut gallery of PCs stood around shit-talking me and being general assholes and it just felt like a public roasting for staying true to my character's beliefs.

It's such a thin line though and at a certain point just feels like "Suicide by Cop" but again - No one stops and asks shit what do I do now that I won.

So I'd like to put this as a reminder. It's okay to fail. Retiring a PC isn't always as terrible as sometimes EFU makes it out to be.

Be it failure of a plan, be it failure of your friends dying leaving you bored or isolated, or be it failure of what to do next after you complete or fail at a big goal. And it's Okay to retire a PC. It doesn't make the time and effort you put into it any less fun, it doesn't make your encounters with people any less enjoyable, it just is what it is. It's a game and sometimes when things don't work it's okay to quit.

EFU moves fast and after you retire most of the world keeps on moving without you anyway. Don't get so hung up or think you're letting people down or the weight of the world is on your shoulders. However also be mindful how your "One last hurrah" very well could be someone else's kick in the teeth.

You can always start a new PC and try to tell a new story, and hopefully find better success.

[Hound]

It's important to mitigate the message of this post with a reminder that EFU does better when players are able to maintain their characters consistently, and many members of the DM team are much more likely to support and enable players who we have seen clearly demonstrate an ability to portray a personality for the gameworld long-term.

[Ironside]

RwG, I mean this as a friend.  You don't need anyone to normalize retirement.  It is something you have been doing every month or so consistently since 2014.  It's already pretty normal.

EfU is a very intense hobby.  It is very time intensive, and people become very invested in it -- this means that when one quits an established character, they are also to a degree going to disappoint anyone who is involved with them. 

It can be a very healthy thing to retire a PC, when you aren't having fun.  I want people to have fun when they play here.

But when you retire you have to understand that it is also going to inevitably disappoint people.  This isn't some kind of endemic issue that can be solved with a change in outlook.

Did this need to be a thread?

[Blue41]

I agree with a lot of this but I wanted to emphasize the following point as a worry I've heard often--the idea that you're letting DM's down by stepping away from your app PC. Things are more likely to go off the rails for your app PCs than something you roll up in five minutes, if only because you can plan all kinds of things that immediately change a week or two after being approved. Just keep in mind that your own enjoyment comes first, because you are largely responsible for exactly that.

[SamB123]

Might be the new guy, but...

I can say, on EFU, you get what you put into it. Sometimes, you have more time to play. Other times, not so much. However, within that, it boils down to, "What are you doing, and how?".

[Paha]

It is a game in the end of the day. We like to put in effort to find the goal that is a fleshed out, fulfilling concept - an idea that pushes you to chase a story and interaction with others. Sometimes it works out, and others it does not. As Iron said, when we are involved with people it inevitably leads to some disappointments but as RwG said, and as Iron said, it is fine and it is definitely normal and to be expected.

One thing is certain. If you are not having fun or are stuck, then do not try and force things to a point where it becomes uncomfortable. It is definitely alright to retire a PC. My suggestion is that one takes time to find that thing that fuels you nicely and might offer a chance for longevity, but do not force things if it does not work. Reflecting on why something didn't work is worth it and thinking what is it that you need for it to work.

As maybe was attempted, I don't quite wish to normalize idea of retirement, but not being afraid of it. Because there is no need to be afraid of it. Sometimes it happens. I hope that if you feel need to retire, you reflect and find reasons why it happened, and are able to find richer way to play that enhances your enjoyment and in return it enhances others. Because honestly, when others are doing well, it radiates to other players and they want to be part of it.

So - have fun, and relax because it is meant to be fun. As RwG said, you can always try to find another story to do better and aim for something different.

[Random_White_Guy]

Just to clarify- This has nothing to do with my situation, I thoroughly enjoyed my last PC and have a cool one lined up and have no hard feelings and good talks with the PCs involved. I was just throwing it in as a personal example. Other instances with other Peerage Retainers and others are very common.

To Iron and Hound's points - I'm not saying PCs should run from a challenge or just pack it in and retirement definitely sucks especially if people are heavily involved. EFU needs long term PCs to set the stage and tone and absolutely need a framework and DMs love having PCs they can pop in on and work with that they know and are well established and prestigious.

My larger point and I think Paha raises it best- Normalizing it was maybe the wrong word. Not being afraid of it.

It's something PCs shouldn't be afraid of especially if the option is souring your EFU Experience IC and OOC.

To finalize my point Ironside pointed out as this shifted to discord chat that people may not even read the forums that much there's a few things from the discussion that I feel should at least be raised up.

TL;DR:
If you're stuck ask DMs or Vet PCs for plot and concept help.
If you're frustrated don't rush to try and die to another PC to vindicate your quitting.
Especially if that involves things like Murdering a merchant in Ticker to go out like a crime boss in a hail of gunfire, challenging a Retainer of a House, or otherwise.

Ask for help from PCs or DMs if you're stuck Retirement something PCs shouldn't be afraid of especially if the option is souring your EFU Experience IC and OOC.

There's been such a push these last few weeks where PCs openly discussing in Main or in otherwise proposing just carpet-bombing the playerbase on the off chance they'll die and not get labeled as "Just quitting". Same with App PCs that aren't working out, leaving them feeling frustrated.

A few excerpts from Discord that help shed light on things.

[3:35 PM] Citizen Bane: Not gonna lie, there have been discussions about where people talk about doing something akin what RWG is mentioning

[3:37 PM] Ironside: Nah, it's fine on the forums.
[3:37 PM] Ironside: I was more worried that something may have happened to you personally
[3:37 PM] Ironside: I mean - it is something of a sensitive topic I feel.
[3:37 PM] Ironside: Quitting definitely can mess a lot up - this is sadly one of those games where removing a piece changes the whole board for the worse.

[3:41 PM] dan|phone: i think it's a fair enough point to say it's OK to move on from a pc when you're not having fun.  i do think the most fun charterers are the long term ones; so there's real value in trying to stick it out.  but if you've made up your mind, and the PC just isn't jiving with you, you shouldn't feel guilty about retiring

[3:45 PM] Eraamion: But as long as EfU keeps the prevalent 'playing-to-the-audience' mindset, it will keep happening.
[3:45 PM] Eraamion: Because doing the blaze-of-glory ending plays to the audience.
[3:46 PM] Eraamion: And is certainly on aggregate more fun to everyone, although zero-fun to the victim.
[3:46 PM] WriterX-Leopold: Another question is whether you have to go out with a bang. What is wrong with just retiring?
[3:47 PM] Eraamion: 'Just retiring' does not entertain the audience.

So long as PCs aware it's happening more often than it used to in EFU's past, and are willing to talk down friends they see doing it.

Just play and have fun and if it stops being fun reach out to change that or hang it up.

[parthenos]

While I feel I understand some of the points in response to the post, I feel it important to highlight that you play the game for your own amusement first and foremost. The result of encouraging players to artificially mine out interesting personalities seems to be half baked characters waiting for their own deaths and players who log in for an hour or two on a Wednesday tops in order to maintain the continuity of their characters or to interact with whatever characters they have had contact with for the sake of posterity.

Playing this game for anything other than fun is absurd, and only leads to cheapen the server in the long run. No amount of 'enabling' will lead to solve that, lol.

[SunrypeSlim]

I retire my characters when I click the Red X at the top of of the window they exist in. I am not a consistent personality, so it's hard to portray one.

So I don't anticipate a lot of stuff being built for/around my characters. Accepting that makes me happier IG and more grateful for the occasional spice.

I need my third PC of the chapter to be low-budget and avant-garde with just a touch of hyphenated-colloquialism. I'd rather stay out of the game than play anything less awesome than my reputation demands.