Suggestions Wanted - Cure for Loneliness

[xXCrystal_Rose]

When I get bored I go out and slaughter the world and water the earth with blood. And fill peoples combat logs with script errors. It is busy work that also gives a chance to possibly bump into other PCs. Trying to find people to rp with is the great struggle so I go places to be seen and do little bits of rp'ing with myself in open places trying to find other characters to interact with.

It rarely works, but sometimes there is a questing party to cross paths with, or an explorer ^^ But yea that's what I do. Wander the 'dark trying to find people to chill with and maybe get rid of some of the bigger baddies that Sanctuary folk don't even know were sitting out there waiting to ruin their day when they go romping out. You're welcome. If you're bored try going out of your usual loitering grounds and exploring something new.

[The Band Played On]

The main thing, to my mind, with regards to Lower is there needs to be more PC traffic and things in place to encourage people to risk playing outside Sanctuary. It's hard to maintain conflict if there's not this traffic, since they provide the potential recruits. There's been some new PCs around, but most of the time once they outgrow the newbie quests there you never see them again.

Certainly, things are being attempted ICly to recruit, but currently players seem very reluctant because of the obvious difficulties they'll face. Some of the things suggested here are great, such as some colorful NPCs that provide some unusual entertainment, and systems like PanamaLane mentioned that are unique to Lower that can get you a small amount of gold, and XPs past the "starter" levels and can be done alone. It would mean more traffic, and more traffic means people to roleplay with, and potentially recruit to your cause. People need compelling reasons to come to Lower so that interactions can be initiated between character who might not otherwise meet each other.

As it's been when the outlaw PCs in Lower lose someone there's no new PCs to step in and help keep the group going, which is a distinct difference from the way Sanctuary works. It means that this kind of conflict can fade very swiftly, and that's discouraging to those looking to step out on a limb and play PCs who are unwelcome in Sanctuary.

[Paha]

Do remember suggestion guidelines, boys and girls.

We are asking concrete suggestions, ideas, what not. This was not meant solely for discussion. Discussion has been happening for a long time. We need proper ideas and suggestions, if you got any.

[Nights Bane]

MaimedGod said something very succint!

"MaimedGod" said something along the lines of an area of "Neutral ground", where the players could meet up to roleplay without ever having to worry about being ganked.  

This just plum makes sense to me!  Even the gods in Faerun do it! In a plane of existence known as "Cynosure" Here's a description:  

Also known as the Hall of Meeting, Cynosure is the only truly neutral ground among the planes. Unclaimed by any deity and uninhabited by any native race, Cynosure is nothing more than a small demiplane in the shape of a huge, majestic hall, adorned with soaring pillars and open to a star-filled sky. Surrounding the hall are portals leading to every divine realm in Toril's cosmology. This plane is the place where the gods come to meet when some pressing business demands a degree of communication among them. Whether the meeting involves two deities hoping to cement an alliance or the whole Faerûnian pantheon, Cynosure is a safe meeting place.

[FarmGirl]

I saw something recently that really surprised me: (spoiler) talking to (spoiler). I expected the two to start wailing on each other but it turns out they were too busy discussing a DM/NPC plot!

It's not the most ideal solution as it does require a fair bit of DM attention/involvement, but sometimes PCs of opposing factions can be lead towards the realization that they need the help/advice/participation of supposed enemies to solve problems.

For example:
-Some great, dangerous threat endangering the people of both Lower and Upper Sanctuary
-A group of Upper and Lower NPCs (Doctors-without-Borders-esque group of Ilmatari, researchers, traveling bard troupe) who need help with something
-Some sort of structural/geological event where a portion of Upper Sanctuary is close to collapsing on Lower Sanctuary.
-A Romeo and Juliet scenario

These sorts of interaction, of course, also serves as opportunities for supposed enemies to form a sense of respect for one another. At the same time, it also provides an opportunity for hard-line PCs who are wholly dedicated to one faction or another to make a mess of things.

[Blue41]

I'll preface this by saying that with my current PC, Lower has gone through a ton of changes that have made it substantially more supportive of different concepts than it used to. There are more places to spawn, more NPC's to interact with. That said, concrete suggestions

Exploration and locked doors: Lower Sanctuary has three back-alley areas, to my knowledge. Between the three of them, they have a TON of doors. Less than half of them can be opened, and then only if you have a spell or a rogue with you. When I tried to get people to explore the area with my first PC, one of the answers I got was 'don't bother, we've been out there and there's nothing.'

There isn't nothing, but there isn't much that inspires that kind of PC to keep looking. Open a few of those areas up, or create a few hidden spots for the persistent to find. Lower doesn't necessarily need to be 'accessible' but a lot of the most interesting spots- those which creates concepts and keeps people coming back- are locked off. There are keys on low-level quests that require you to basically farm them for access- and if you're an exile, you may find yourself motivated to grind for a higher level quickly. There are keys in areas far off the beaten path, which require a group. One time, I bashed my way past a locked door to find another locked door- that needed a key.

The freedom of Lower Sanctuary is that you don't have a million Spellguard directives telling you where you can and can't go like in Upper, and doesn't require you to brave the dangers of the Underdark like nature PC's. I've seen a few neat areas, but that hinged on me being in a group.

Finding other PC's to interact with: Yesterday, a cultist of the Ooze made a sending for his fighting event in the Pissing Crone from Upper Sanctuary. I assume this was because it was a relatively new concept, and he didn't have the 500 gold needed to buy the right in Lower. Maybe that changes for higher-level PC's, but the point is that unless you come into Lower with a group concept in mind, it's probably a lot easier to find a group outside of Lower- or you count on other people to make sendings to give you a chance to find them.

A reduction for sending prices have been suggested in the past. Can you make five hundred gold in this setting? Easily. Is it as easy for a PC who wants to stay relatively grounded in Lower, and whose questing is restricted to Lower and beyond? I don't know.

I do know that while taking the more difficult route is encouraged if it fits your concept, it now also pretty much requires a five hundred buy-in to draw other PC's in. I guess you could forum warrior like a champ and set up your meetings OOCly. Sending prices could use a drop, or more ways to make money in Lower could be made available.

[morva]

An equivalent of clowns in Lower.

[Mia]

With my time-zone, I am no stranger to spending my EFU experience alone. Even if the rewards are broken. When you are truly alone, all the sendings in the world don't matter and logging out doesn't really help either. It just means the next person logging in is alone, and ready to get discouraged.

EFU has a variety of scripts and events to keep you busy for a little while. Which admittedly, never match up to actually meeting another person to play with. It's just that these scripts and events are in Sanctuary or limited to levels. The only thing I can pretty much do when I am alone in the Lower ward is talking to NPCs repetitively until they come up with some new dialogue. That is why I propose to move a few of the already existing scripts to other areas. Perhaps in other forms to make them fit the atmosphere. These scripts don't even need to be rewarding. Just time consuming and lightly amusing or interesting.

The following things I would see made available to a larger range of people:
* Bounty hunting
* Rothe hunting (Preferably with a level cap on the exp reward, not a cap on the actual activity)
* Blackjack
* Customized Clothing Tailors
* Riddle Animatrons

[morva]

Exploration areas that you can enter with one player!!!!

[Random_White_Guy]

The docks was a pretty empty place before people accepted that it was dangerous and began rolling PCs who weren't bothered by that notion. I don't want to cast blame or throw any accusations around because it's a part of EFU that we have all experienced but it's the truth. A lot of PCs are worried that if they go into lower they will become a stain on someone's boot.

So as a result we have a lot of cool PCs who dwell in lower and eke out existence but their support structure is crippled by people not wanting to dive into that end of the pool.

My advice? Do what was done in the Docks. Put a DM faction in there. Doesn't matter if it is big, small, fat, brutal, peaceful.

Personally I love the disjointed sandbox feel that Lower has. Cults come and go, rise and fall, mayhem, peace.

It's like the Stewards but for city PCs. Not everyone looks at a Sandbox and says "YAY SAND".

Just something that has character turnover and is something people create PCs to pursue. A lasting DM faction is something that people will recruit for, that people will make PCs to join, and would populate lower sanctuary.

My advice to everyone is what it always is: More Cults.

I love it. I love that in our broken shattered world all the madmen, fringe outcasts, and other people turn to Cults. Gods are dying but Cults still grow. Some real, some charlatans, some madmen. It's glorious and we need more of it.

Cults cults cults cults. It's the way of the future and the future is now.

[Heavyfog]

Bounty hunting was one of the coolest newer additions to the server imo.  It wasnt limited by levels and gave good XP.  It got people out in the game world rather than sitting and waiting around for a quest.  I loved bounty hunting in Mistlocke.  My suggestion to make Lower more interactive and decrease loneliness is an NPC in lower that pays the same or similar 'reward' for turning in a bounty posted by the Watch.  

Maybe the paying NPC is a slaver, maybe the paying NPC and the NPC criminal are old friends or are in a gang together.  Perhaps the paying NPC has a beef with the man the bounty was placed on and wants him dead for his own reasons. I think there is some potential here.

Perhaps 'rescuing' the bounty from the Watch and bringing him into Lower rather than upper unlocks some QA in Lower i.e. you get a key instead of gold.

Bounty hunting is something that can be done alone or in groups, locating the bounty could lead to conflict as both parties from Upper and Lower seek the same goal.  Perhaps the two factions meet and agree to work together.  

I'm not sure how hard something like this would be to implement but its a suggestion. :)

[Moonlighter]

The isolation does get incredibly discouraging at times in Lower, yes.

I imagine it's likely the same elsewhere but in Lower it's pretty consistent. Upper has the benefit of new PCs getting funneled there by the module, so their population growth will always be higher.

And while I can explore, like Rose suggests, and do spend most of my time, alone or otherwise, exploring the module- wilds, machine, etc- this tends to consume supplies and not provide much if anything as a reward, EXP or goldwise. We also lack the support systems that Upper has, which means that if your supplies do repeatedly get burned up, they're really hard to replace because there's few brewers that are Lower PCs or even willing to come to Lower in the first place.

I've even seen a complete lack of Rusted Hatch explorables as of the last several resets, and I've been all over the Machine looking for them, including several less than safe areas in an attempt to find even one with little luck.

Not that I could do those alone, anyway, but they'd be something for me to hunt for, find, make a sending, and bring some friends or allies online or together to explore and thus gather players and generate roleplay... Which was a lot of what I did prior to their disappearance.


If I had a 'concrete' suggestion, it'd probably be more explorables and the other small stuff to do in Lower that you can do during the dead hours to generate gold and experience and supplies past level Six. A Lower/Exile PC can't merely go and make a sending asking to do a Kobold's run without expecting to get crowdganked by roaming Uppersmen, so... it's just not an option. We have to gather in the same room to do that sort of thing, and find a balanced group of similar levels, and that's significantly harder when our pool for potential players is so much more concentrated even if I think it does generate better roleplay than this:

::[ City Sending by Whoever : Come kill some kobolds with me, dawgmandudeguys! //3-7 ]::

We've also no equivalent to Druidic Patrols, or Silverfins or etc, so when you're alone there's little incentive to even stay logged in. Which in turn, makes the next person who logs in equally alone, and the cycle compounds on itself.

Alt characters are made because there's just little way to progress forward in any tangible way shape or form alone.

Not to mention, most of our players are of a rather high level, so quest groups and trains are just not happening, and the few that aren't struggle very hard to acquire EXP and gold as a result.

Perhaps the solution is more DM attention, as that is sparse, but the usual type of 'all in' DM quests you see aren't really made for Lower Sanctuary. They're made to entertain a large group of players, and the largest group of players you're liable to find at nearly any time will be those of Upper Sanctuary and that's fine that you cater to that.

It's just hard hearing something about like, some awesome DM quest for Upper PCs while I'm sitting alone in the Crone or exploring the Machine alone due to lack of anything to do or anyone to interact with that won't kill my PC on sight.

To be honest, I'm not sure if you can solve the loneliness problem besides making it worthwhile to keep at it, even when alone. Then, more people would be inclined to do so, I figure.

[Zango_Unchained]

When there are less then ten people on the server I think randoms should open with one person, beyond this lets add some caravans from lower to elements on the shore of the dark lake, or even to the lizardfolk at the docks of Mur.

Lets get invasions in the docks district of lower, lets have more of the idle things that efu:A had, the skinning systems, the meat systems, the turn ins.

Have things like that, that allow for something to do when players are alone. And if your a new and low level player give them opportunities to find that handful of other people on the server.

[granny]

Do not forget, although: the Lower is not the only center of isolation.

Not as rare as most think, you'll find PCs that will be isolated from Nature, Lower and Upper (aberrant dwellers, crazy necromancers and cia). It is important that these guys have access to some facilities to keep them going as well. If they managed to anger so many in the server, it is, in LiAH4 words at least, "because they did something right". So they should be rewarded and not mechanically punished (ICly they will be punished already, no matter what).

I really would like to see some alternative spots having options that are not available in any other area, many times excluding those that might have excluded you.

I mean, facilities that only evil guys would take. And evil guys that are willing to dwell somewhere far away. Or facilities for those that have their spot set in the Kuo-Toa island, or facilities for those that decided to live among the Shagga... or the duergar.

Not that suddenly they'll spend their time only at their exile and end up not being pushed into seeking some sort of interaction with other  PCs, but some little things that will keep them pushing forward.

I like the smuggling quests (even if I've never truly tried them beyond opening the package and being kicked out of the business forever), maybe add more smuggling quests and caravan quests that would put central hubs in interaction with each others? Also the herbalist quest, it has a nice explorative format that could be used on these new spots.


Oh, please! Add more venom harvestable creatures around the server and make a talonite seller that would give you bounties for the venom collected <3

[granny]

oh...

we need sellers outside the Upper areas with the following items (the list is bigger, but these are the ones that come to my mind):

cooking, herbalism and alchemy apparatus
syringe
potion cauldron
zurkhwood material
scribes