Some OOC Thoughts about Ringrunning

[Howlando]

This is all new territory for EFU, so I wanted to start up an ooc discussion about how to handle the issue of trying to preserve the special character for Ringrunner PCs in the future without spoiling their experience.

There are two ways to do that, there is the IC ("bad luck" to talk about the deeper Rings), and then there is the OOC (actual rules about all of this).

The first thing I want to say is that so far players have respected most of this, which I really appreciate.

I also want to clarify, that I don't mind if a degree is aid is offered to PCs for Rings 100-95, but that the experience of getting a Key to get past Ring 95 into Ring 94 is intended as quite a major challenge and that you must absolutely not discuss  ooc anything beyond there.

Furthermore, if you decide to talk about it IC, you must alert a DM, so we can make sure bad luck falls upon you.

Players should also be advised that the "bad luck" will go beyond normal levels of what DM does in EFU. We will legitimately bring the pain. And not necessarily the fun kind of pain. If you are violating these kinds of superstitions, it is your responsibility to inform a DM so we can make the game world react to that.

Second I wanted to talk about selling keys.

There is, of course, the obvious fact that NPCs sometimes sell Keys so we don't want to disallow something for PCs that NPCs do. To be honest I actually kind of like the atmosphere of key bartering being a part of the City's economy.

However, we are going to tweak things a bit and make some keys actually "Keystones." "Keystones" will not resemble normal keys but instead be special non-drop items that may not be looted, stolen, or given away without a DM. They seem to IC'ly "bind" to a character's skin  so transferring will be a difficult process. Players should be advised that if they are dropped by a dead NPC, you should not pick up all of them up unless you want to deprive your allies a chance at their own! They will be marked clearly so that this is understood to be the case, but it will be your responsibility to check before picking them up.

[zerotje]

Please keep everything as IC as you can in order for an immersive experience.

However you should put up huge OOC signs about the "IC danger" of spoiling something, and state your dislike of it.
Then, if someone spoils it anyway, you should bring terrible IC pain upon them.

What you said, it seems, is the best compromise there is for the situation :).

Allow selling keys 100 - 95, then turn all the next keys into "Cursed Key". stating it doesn't want to leave the inventory or keyring of the player.
Something like that. Just a thought.

[Mia]

As someone who loves reading every bit of dialogue npcs have to offer, the ringrunners in ring 100 did not escape me. Nor their aversion for spoiling secrets. But I can easily imagine that a player would miss that. It might be helpful to make it part of the introductory quests. Some small ringrunner related quest they give, that accentuates the essence of not spilling secrets, and how important that is. Maybe in the spot where the gargoyle door used to be.

[Anonymous Lemur]

I had absolutely no idea that was anything but a superstition until now. The wording could use to be a bit stronger. Superstition suggests there is no real threat and it's just people think these things.  Bad luck implies there is luck involved. It sounds like if you say something you will 100% end up having a bad time which is probably be better referred to as some kind of curse. Like the Ringkeepers curse or something. There may be one already, but having a God specifically dedicated to causing the suffering of people who reveal too much about the rings and making them quite well known and prevalent in the setting through introductory quests might be an idea.

[DYBIL]

There have been allusions to a "curse of the Rings" in the module.

[Garem]

As someone who loves reading every bit of dialogue npcs have to offer, the ringrunners in ring 100 did not escape me. Nor their aversion for spoiling secrets. But I can easily imagine that a player would miss that. It might be helpful to make it part of the introductory quests. Some small ringrunner related quest they give, that accentuates the essence of not spilling secrets, and how important that is. Maybe in the spot where the gargoyle door used to be.

This is an excellent idea.

Is it possible for a mandatory intro quest where players experience this? The super basic explanation way would be having NPCs on the other side of a divide. One tells the other about the rings and a giant hound NPC runs by and eats him. Literally play out the scene, so people know this is superstition only because the survivors rarely live to tell about it.

[Garem]

I also want to clarify, that I don't mind if a degree is aid is offered to PCs for Rings 100-95, but that the experience of getting a Key to get past Ring 95 into Ring 94 is intended as quite a major challenge and that you must absolutely not discuss  ooc anything beyond there.

Furthermore, if you decide to talk about it IC, you must alert a DM, so we can make sure bad luck falls upon you.

Can we get a few examples of what is wrong and what is not? Ringrunning is clearly meant to be a team-based activity, but the contours could use some clarification. A few questions immediately come to mind:

• Is it okay for a team of ringrunners inside Ring 95 to discuss their strategy for solving the Ring's challenge?
• Is it okay for ringrunners, who all know how to solve the Ring 95 challenge, to discuss it in a private room in Ring 99?
• What about mysteries that require skill checks - does every person have to solve the skill check for themselves, or can a team share the succeeded skill check?

[Howlando]

Is it okay for a team of ringrunners inside Ring 95 to discuss their strategy for solving the Ring's challenge?
Is it okay for ringrunners, who all know how to solve the Ring 95 challenge, to discuss it in a private room in Ring 99?
What about mysteries that require skill checks - does every person have to solve the skill check for themselves, or can a team share the succeeded skill check?

Absolutely OK
Absolutely OK
Absolutely OK to share.

To clarify, I am interested in preventing a situation in which a newer player is deprived of the experience in joining up with a team to "solve" the Rings. I want every dedicated Ringrunner to have to actually figure out all this stuff on their own or with a small band of trusted fellows.

I fully support bands of Ringrunners working together to solve the challenges and cooperating with their different skill-sets. Many of the earlier Rings (those in the 90s) require teams.

Once you start going even deeper (80s, 70s....), teams are no longer required. One could, if they wished, even play EFU for a time as a completely solo experience.... of course, if you die, there will be no DM to "clear your corpse." You must retire or respawn to Ring 100.

Anyway, the Curse is a real thing and it will be structured as necessary to maintain the atmosphere of secrecy about how to delve into the Rings to preserve the experience as much as possible.

It is one of the advantages of this being such a small community filled with great players that I actually think it will be possible to do this.

[Kinslayer988]

Have a universal 'bad luck' script that changes the experience of players would be magnificent. This would cut down on the need for DMs to come IG to punish certain PCs and provide a tangible punishment as to reduce the amount of complaints some players may have down the line and destroy any idea that there is an inconsistent amount of punishments.

No player will be punished more than another bad luck player. No player will be punished less than another bad luck player. Having different stages depending on just how bad the person goofed is possible.

[Bearic]

It might be smart to have even this post in the ooc character creation area. While it's fairly obvious we don't want to spoil things for newer players or characters, having an actual curse applied is good to be aware of.

[Aethereal]

The IC solution is greatly preferred, to make the bad luck a palpable thing for those who speak about the secrets of the Rings. One idea I have is that, currently it is possible to talk to wayward ringrunner NPCs in places like the King's Commons and persuade them to tell a secret (I've learnt some big hints from doing this personally.) Maybe one of these loose tongued ringrunners after speaking a secret can be smote by lightning or be afflicted by a heart clutch or something like that to bring bad luck to life.  Putting an interaction like this in ring 100 for new characters would be great as well.

This should probably also be complemented by an OOC notice/warning in the OOC character creation area stating that the spreading of secrets pertaining to the rings can and will have tragic consequences on characters and that it is also something that is simply discouraged OOCly in the first place for the stated reason of retaining the novelty of ringrunning for future ringrunner PCS.

Also maybe something horrible could happen to the NPC Victor Tensmith... he has a very loose tongue. Although I can see him existing as a way of inspiring ringrunners. Maybe he can begin pompous when he appears then as he talks and talks he grows more hesitant.

[Hollow_Mage]

A recurring NPC Ringrunner whose only purpose is to be punished by fate as a cautionary tale to others.

Over and over and over again.

Whenever you think this topic needs a reminder, make a new rumour post about Joe Schmo, talking about the Inner Rings and getting an increasingly-embarrassing punishment.

Is it a little on-the-nose? A little 2-dimensional for EfU?

Yes, and that's why I think it would work. A stark, diegetic reminder of the power of mystery. Because people, even with the best intentions, have a tendency to forget, or to stretch the rules.

[Necro]

The problem with keystones I'd think is quite simple to see actually.. If they bind to our pc's flesh, how then, can we pry them from npc's? When certainly the keystones would have bound to their flesh. Might wanna think that over a bit.. But uh, if they can be -cut- from another npc's skin- pc's as well.. Now that might.. be a good explanation and propose a solution to that conundrum, as well of course, proposing interesting conflict potential for the more evil oriented ringrunners.

[bobofwestoregonusa]

A starter quest where the NPC cursed by the affliction is actually killed might also be good

[I love cats]

This is easy to enforce. Make bad things happen to PCS that break secrets/lead inexperienced people through the rings just to quest stomp.  Right now my character knows how to get to ring 95 purerly because someone lead them to quest smash.  There was no puzzle solving/figuring it out.

I can say for a lot of PCS this is definetly the case.  I would even go
as far as to say the secret to  get to 94 is definetly out/common knowledge.