V5 Feedback Thread

[PinballSorcerer]

There has been no lack of conflict this chapter but I find it fun and interesting.  Change can be exciting.  I can't agree with the post above enough.  Pretty pretty pretty please with cherries on top do not change it back to a situation where groups are forced to be mortal enemies ready to stab each other by default.  Right now the Peers/Ponds/Tickers already have plenty of reason to dislike each other and fight, I'd very much like to not see it moved to a state of permanent warfare as was often the case for Lower/Upper/Vaults.  Not always of course, but there were long periods of open warfare and things were rarely more than two steps away.

[KaedweniKnight]

Actually, I'd like just one iteration of the server where CONFLICT isn't shoe-horned in. What's wrong with 99 being a hub? What's wrong with capitalism being benign? I think repeating the same conflict-for-conflict-sake attitude of previous modules would be boring. And I think the odds are good, based on external messaging from the DM team, that all the tools necessary to create conflict naturally are further in.

The King awaits.

I wanted to express my support for this statement.
There's nothing more boring to me than obviously shoe-horned conflict. Example:

Faction 1 is delicious potao-men and Faction 2 is hungry starving fry cooks.
Faction 1 is druids and Faction 2 is "I HATE DRUIDS" engineers.

I don't think this sort of forced conflict adds anything interesting to the setting or the game as a whole.
Furthermore I think it's quite appropriate to have a somewhat more mellow setting in which people don't instantly click on each other while hostile because they happen to be from the Peerage/Pond/Ticker square. You can still have that experience, and people have been having it, if that's what you want. But in the current, more long-term PC oriented setting I would prefer to avoid a "fast and furious" PC lifecycle where people brutally murder each other because they happen to sleep in the wrong inn.

You literally just made a giant strawman and oversimplified everyones arguments, good job at attacking that strawman buck-o, snideness aside I can see what you're saying (but that's not what people are saying) but at the bottom and heart of any worthwhile story and roleplay is a basic rule and principle. - Conflict derives roleplay. Irregardless of the setting, where we are, or what the story is. This is a broadbrush principle that has driven story and roleplay since the dawn of mankind. 

But we are having an argument here that is off topic to this thread now.

I will state my point I made first.

There is no problem with creating internal conflict within the square, divided factions derive intrigue, roleplay, and interest, as of right now there - I feel it is very little. Yousef making remarks towards half orcs, really only source of conflict I've seen, and god bless 'em for doing it. It's like light beer and tavern roleplay at the minute internally.

[The Crimson Magician]

imo:

Exile / Covenant / WaW conflict was often stale because the conflict was often seemed to be about their competing existences (grr thralls grr rebels grr cops) and dragged out forever as opposed to competing agendas / storylines with goals that have tangible in game consequences / changes set within a reasonable timeframe.

Right now, the server doesn't feel as fleshed out as it should be, which is understandable as both players and DMs are trying to find a foothold in the new setting. With the closed status of applications and relatively untouchable NPCs of consequence, important aspects of the server are just inaccessible by players and player influence doesn't seem very valuable in a story telling sense yet, as the player conflict that I have observed often seems like a game of king of the hill and, while at times it is fun and interesting, does not hold much significance outside of itself.

What I would like to see is a game world that is encouraging and rewarding of conflict that make use of the setting and adds stakes for winning and losing to each side that focuses on building up a larger arc. For a vague example, the Rings are a great obstacle to overcome and success in ringrunning is an easily accessible and tangible  metric to incorporate into the success in the completion of competing faction agendas and goals. Incentive for diverse groups to find themselves in the same place for the same goal but with different reasons is a natural conflict.

Obviously you don't want to dump 100 useless unique objects into the loot tables with tags saying they're useful and valuable though stuff like that on a smaller scale I can look back on favorably.

[LawfulStupid]

The aspect of conflict, which, admittedly, is not something I'm super interested in, I think is having some issues for two main reasons.

1) Ticker Square is kind of a hub.

There's just too much of an economy in the square to be ignored by the other factions, combined with the fact that most PCs don't care if the Peerage come to shop.  Plus there are a lot of profitable low level quests.  But I think the more relevant one, in my opinion, is thus:

2) We're all too close to each other

It's cramped! It's hard to mark or claim territories because of how close the other factions are. It's like playing Team Fortress 2 and trying to get into the second floor of 2fort, the enemy team spawn is RIGHT THERE!

[Vlaid]

There is some good feedback here but good deal less good. I think I would love if everyone could not turn this into a discussion thread though. Give your feedback and move on. I do not want to see this thread become a dumping ground for angst and aimless salt. So say what you like, what you don't, maybe you have something you wish there was more or less of. That's all we really want. Please do not go around in endless circles arguing and debating each other here, we can already get that in discord! :)

Thanks.

[Providence]

In that case, here's some more:

I think the difficulty of Ringrunning is too high. This may sound odd since I like challenges, but... I want this to be something everyone can enjoy. The recent change to how the 95 key works, and the challenges ahead are all extremely mechanically demanding to the point that they will easily wipe all the supplies one has accrued. So after defeating a ring, you often end up having to regather supplies for a long time which I do not find interesting.

I get it - it's not meant to be easy or quick. But maybe the difficulty could not be as front-loaded as it is right now. As it stands right now, 95 demands a fairly powerful and well equipped group of PCs, and it doesn't get easier further in. If you frontload all the difficulty so early on, there's a lot less room to ramp things up in the later rings.

[Aethereal]

means that players who set out to ringrun are doing their own thing for hours on end without the possibility for interaction with others.

that some players feel because they have to get in on the ground floor of a ringrunning group to experience the further rings; not doing so cuts the content they can interact with by a significant margin.

I think this could and should be worked on somehow. If ringrunning were somehow less about creating cliques but still preserving it's central idea. I like vibrant RP that involves a great array of characters - and to that you could say: well, don't focus on ringrunning. And for the most part, I'm not. It just doesn't feel like something that should be kept strictly in the realm of cliques unless there were ways of extending RP opportunities and encounters beyond Ring 99.

Maybe get Ordo Arcanum that tower in the Wizard Warrens where dedicated Ringrunners can stay awhile and listen... hire a mage, try their hand at alchemy, train against illusions, or have a bit of conjured food and drink before hitting the rings again (sorry, shameless, I know. But the idea is sound! RP opportunities beyond the 99th through thematic player-run, possibly even ringrunner clique-run mini-hubs!)

[goate]

I imagine as the chapters goes on we'll see more and more people in rings deeper than 99;  I've really enjoyed the rings less than 99 how they are: difficult, dangerous, and somewhat isolated from civilization.  I like the fact that after facing a challenge you have to limp back to 99 to resupply.   It would be a real shame if the rings were easy enough that we were able to make it to the King's Keep within half a year.  Running into folks in deeper rings has been quite a pleasure because it's been so rare.

The dangerous and remote areas of EFU have never been interaction-heavy, exactly because they're remote and dangerous.  The Lowerdark in EFU:4 for example, wasn't a place you went to with high expectations of running into somebody and getting some interpersonal-RP going, although you would of course interact with your party.

I'd propose instead more ring 99 content (which I hear is coming) and more seam content to give folks more stuff to do together in the more accessible areas.

Keep ring-running difficult and dangerous.  Make us suffer, please.

[Astegard]

Positives:
I love the setting (to many positives to name almost)
I like that your have to stay on your toes at all times with the random spawns.
Crafting system is 10/10, very addicting once you figure it out.

Negatives:
I feel the cut off  from quests and loot is to harsh once you reach 6.  This was especially glaring for me as a new joiner as i had suddenly nothing to do without a party.
If this could be made more gradual that would be nice, now its just a steep cliff down. I feel the best tactic now is to hoard gold and resources as much as possible before reaching 6.
I dislike quests you need to do to progress the rings are level capped.
Search is far to profitable/important, I made a new character with some search and he was rolling in gold and items.

[I love cats]

Positives:
I love the setting (to many positives to name almost)
I like that your have to stay on your toes at all times with the random spawns.
Crafting system is 10/10, very addicting once you figure it out.

Negatives:
I feel the cut off  from quests and loot is to harsh once you reach 6.  This was especially glaring for me as a new joiner as i had suddenly nothing to do without a party.
If this could be made more gradual that would be nice, now its just a steep cliff down. I feel the best tactic now is to hoard gold and resources as much as possible before reaching 6.
I dislike quests you need to do to progress the rings are level capped.
Search is far to profitable/important, I made a new character with some search and he was rolling in gold and items.

Yeah once you teach level 6+ the majority of quests are not solo. This is something I hope DMS don't change. Search is a very important skill its also why when goong on adventurers it'd always good to bring at least one person with a lot of ranks in search.

A good way to get supplies is by spending your gold on PC crafters and PC merchants. DMs like a player driven economy. People often think that the pay out for quest loot is too little. Sometimes the loot on quests is abysmal other times you will find generouse portions of loot.

As for being cut off from quests. Socially interact IG and make friends/allies. Join an association, find groups of like minded PCS with similar goals wether it is to make as much gold as possible or slaughter cute puppies. Or even make a sending that you want to go on an adventure!

[Damien]

Back from my hiatus now that GMAT is over.

Couple of things. Maybe it is very well hidden but a rogue shop would be great with traps etc.

There seems to be a severe lack of invisibility items, which is fine for anyone with armour and a shield but painful for all other classes. Could I suggest dropping a few more invis items?

Something for further down the line but I'd agree with Lado, multiple ways to cross rings would be pretty interesting/great too!

[Loops]

Hi

I adore the setting. The writing and world building is beautiful. I can't wait to learn more and to see how it develops over time.

I love that the Peerage Ward is developing into its own and maturing beyond random combat pvp with strangers. Daily meetings, political and personal deals, favour trading and dealing with matters using prestige and influence instead of gold and treasure is so so good and in line with the setting. I came to EFU because I heard it can have deep, meaningful and explosive RP and I've not been disappointed.

The mechanical difficulty is in the right spot from where I can see it. Even though Eryeth can't take part in the majority of the content, with how she's designed I'd be disappointed if she could!

It feels like things in the Peerage are about to be turned upside down - that something big and important can happen. It's so rare to pull that off on a player world, in a setting so young.

Awesome job! I can't wait to see what happens next.

[derkot]

Some my feedback about Ponds.

After about three weeks playing on two druids in Ponds I came to my personal conclusion what Ponds as Hub and as area made very poorly and discourages to play characters with nature theme or monsters characters. I should to mention what I am personally do like to play my monsters and druids. I knew what I was signed for and I am all fine with it.

Firstly what I think is very important what there is no any faction and NPC support in Ponds.
As Pond character you can't feel yourself as home and as well you do not have even any reasons to sit in Ponds. Only thing what force you remain in Ponds it is what in other two hubs character probably not welcomed and not allowed but this not works same in both ways. And there is nothing stops characters from Peerage or Ticker Square visit Ponds. There is no NPCs or Faction what will stop them or will try rise conflict. From topic here https://www.efupw.com/forums/index.php?topic=690942.0 it is clearly stated about two other hubs but as I mentioned there no any kind of force what will prevent other characters to visit Ponds.

Absent of faction or any kind of NPC group support leads to constant issue with two strongholds which located in Ponds. There no special rules, nobody controls it and if you want to associate with one of strongholds you need seek rare Ponds character or claim/raid it with DMs.

Not major but it playes it's role too. As druidic hub it is very hardcore. There no druidic sites/groves with support like it was in EFUR, no lairs but only Stronghold(with their constant issue what I mentioned above) and only Mongrelwoods to explore/wandering which is always means death for new players. Adding Mongrelwoods I think was good step  but still whole druidic theme looks very very poor.

This all togther and other minor things hugely discourages to play characters in Ponds and makes whole area not active at all. Currently, I think there is like less than ten characters active in Ponds(not counting goblins/kobolds). I see players suffers from boredom because they can't visit any hubs, they can't properly gather party to travel/explore in rings because this chapter all about group ringrunning, factions, group exploring/questing, secrets and plots. But without player numbers behind and lack of any kind of NPC/faction supports there is literally no way to try do something important. Only do crazy characters-driven things if you somehow managed get group players who can actively playe in same timezone.



What exactly should keep players interested to play in Ponds when there is nothing?

Thematically, Ponds looks great, anarchy and chaos but is there anything else?
Currently Ponds is like Lower Sanctuary from EFUR. Maybe even worse. Without any changes it will remain very empty without any characters and very unpopular hub as it is now.

[Bouquet of Roses]

This isn't meant to argue or claim anyone else wrong, not in the slightest, this is just my own two cents and my own experiences.

I've played a character in the pond/woods, who survived for a fairly decent while, with the self-imposed restriction of never dawdling in the Peer or Ticker without explicit reason to do so- IE being invited.
While I did have moments of regretting that decision, I was never actually tempted to break it, or change my mind.
Yes, the Ponds are "empty" of NPC guards and Factions. Personally I think that's a good thing. Some of my fondest memories of playing Anna was just huddling about the fire with another PC, and start talking, and watch as more and more PCs came and joined us. We'd usually end up some 4-5 PCs chatting away. I fucking loved that. It's amazing.

There's obviously a lot of potential issues with the setup, and down-periods are gonna be hellish, but on the other hand, I fully appreciate the Sandboxy feel of the "hub".
Only changes I'd ask for would be quality of life stuff, some of which have, to my understanding, already been put in.

As a side note- While the Mongrelwoods can be extremely punishing, but they can be just as rewarding. Saying there's no sort of "benefits" or "support system" for druids or other wildling PCs isn't true at all. Especially not for druids who'd need, what, level 5 and wildshape to have a high enough stealth to reliably get around the woods without too much trouble?

I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed playing a Ponder, with how it is now. And I look forward to doing so again.

As for a personal note on your comments, Derkot- You're already trying to do what would need be done to try and change some of it. Organize the Ponders. Push the "invaders" out. Make it unsafe for them. It won't be easy, but it's not about winning, it's about the journey!

[zerotje]

Hi I just wanted to leave a positive note.

The mystery and extensive but not difficult to grasp Lore of this setting is amazing and makes you wish to explore the Rings, but also engage with factions, NPCs and books. It's great how something like this is made by a team of enthusiastic hobbyists (not to discredit).

Good job.