Roleplaying Properly

[Ladocicea]

EFU is a roleplaying environment, and generally I should say it's quite remarkable how consistently everyone roleplays overall, with some people roleplaying exceptionally.

One thing that I find extremely offputting, however, and which is likely only such an issue due to the generally excellent standard of roleplay we have here, is when people speak ICly in ridiculous, anachronistic colloquialisms, or overly Americanised vernacular.

I'm talking about saying things like "OK!" "Hey!" "Wait up!", calling someone "Buddy", or "Pal", or calling people "Guys!", saying "Wait a sec", gratuitous swearing (which is a separate but related issue) and other such things IG or on the forums. I have noticed that even some players I would rate as exceptional in their roleplaying ability and contributions to the community are guilty of this.

It's a small gripe but I often feel that very few people really truly, deeply consider what their PC should be saying and how they should say it, and just speak as themselves but with some limitations upon their behaviour and how they'll react to things e.g. because they're a cleric of a certain deity, or "whatever" (also not appropriate).

I would just really appreciate it if people "cut it out" (another one I don't want to see IG), because this kind of thing is never appropriate. I realise people may be doing it without noticing, but that's why I'd ask you to put a little more thought into what you're saying before you say it. Please speak as though you're writing dialogue for a novel set in Sanctuary.

[Random_White_Guy]

Not my fault your generation can't handle my swag.

#twerkmill #OnceyougoBlackguild #EFUndies #BathHouseBanter #YouOnlyLevelOnce

[AllMYBudgies]

Ok guys.

[Voideka]

when people speak ICly in ridiculous, anachronistic colloquialisms

An anachronism is a chronological inconsistency. D&D doesn't take place in the past, it's not the middle ages. It takes place in it's own universe, and as such there is no such thing as an anachronism when compared with our own language. There's no reason that words and phrases like 'hey' and 'wait up' wouldn't exist.

That said, I'm alright with the occasional use of such language, but I do think people should avoid using it too often.

[Lira]

This is absurd, not only in its premise that these terms somehow produce low-quality roleplaying, but in suggesting that people aren't putting thought in to the way their character speaks.

 First, we're dealing with real-time text, which is an extraordinarily limited medium. Consider how much "bandwidth" you have when you communicate as a character in a tabletop gaming session: intonation, accent, volume, pronunciation, emphasis, facial expression, eye contact (or lack thereof), posture, proximity, touch, gesture, general body language, and those are just the ones I can think of offhand. These are the basic tools of human communication, ones a good player uses in every single scene with content beyond “kill it and take its stuff.” These tools let us transmit an enormous quantity of information in literally the blink of an eye.  

 Now think about what happens when you have to communicate the same amount of information through text. If you're in a play-by-post format you can still manage most of that, but it requires a level of written detail that is going to be agonizing to read through for most people, because let's face it, genuinely talented and polished writers are not the usual PbP RP demographic. And that's okay – it just means that we lose some of that bandwidth, so we have to do more with less. The remaining channels of communication have to be used more effectively, usually by exaggerating them. So instead of writing three sentences about a character's posture, proximity, and general body language, you might say “loomed over him, black and broad, a thunderhead in darkened mail.” If you were “writing dialogue for a novel set in Sanctuary,” this is how you would do it.
 
 Now throw in real-time and everything goes to hell. You're no longer at your leisure to think of just the right way to phrase something to get the most out of your limited bandwidth, you need it now. Body language and manner of speech become an order of magnitude more difficult.  They're still possible through emotes, but emotes take up precious time and communicate less than speech. Your main tools in Neverwinter's real-time plain-text are word choices, dialect, exaggerated accents, volume as indicated through capitalization, and emphasis as indicated by emphasis marks like *X* or -X-.
 
 Here's an example taken from actual play – which is, frankly, the only kind that actually matters. For those of you who don't know, I play Ananfel Alanuil. He's a young Sun Elf, probably in his late teens human-equivalent, who's had to grow up much too fast and isn't adapting well. Ananfel's my first PC on EFU, and as with every new PW I try, I went with a personality that I'm familiar with from tabletop play so I could slide more easily in to the role instead of juggling that and a new setting and mechanics at the same time. Specifically, he's a gentle, kind-hearted person who's still got a lot of youthful vibrancy and even a little innocence and naivete, who recognizes that all of those things are being eroded by the horror all around him.
 
 I borrowed a lot of those elements directly from a character I played for two years in a recent tabletop game, again because it was a useful touchstone. When I play Ananfel, I consciously try to bring forward the voice and mannerisms of that other character and translate them in to a real-time plain-text format. But so much of that character lived in channels of communication which aren't available to me in NWN1, or only available at considerable cost in time and written characters: a soft, lightly accented voice, a pacing to his speech that alternated between halting uncertainty and a sudden childlike rush of words, the body language of an underdeveloped and vulnerable teen, intense eye contact or sudden aversion, and on and on.  

 Sure, I could put a lot of that in the description, but let's be honest here, nobody keeps up the description of the person they're interacting with and references it whenever they speak, or memorizes the descriptions of every PC they encounter. So in lacking these tools I rely on so heavily to portray the character, what can I use instead? Mostly through grammar and style, and some emoting. Where the older elves on EFU (Liruwen, Arantras, Saeros, etc) rarely use contractions and stick to the most Tolkienian grammar they can find, I almost always use contracted forms and try to sound, for lack of a better way to put it, like a normal person. I -emphasize- words a lot too, but that's just my style as a player. I do this to call attention to the fact that he's still young, that he hasn't grown in to the “elfness” of the older generation, but it doesn't always work. Too often I find the character comes across as either a bit too jaded or goofy, and striking a middle ground can be too bland. Frequent emotes help, but it's not a perfect solution. My bandwidth is limited just like everyone else.
 
 I doubt anyone will disagree about avoiding the egregiously anachronistic, but limiting our already-narrow channels of communication isn't going to do any good, especially at the level you're describing: hey is objectionable? Seriously? Given the limitations of our medium, the more restrictions you place on grammar and word choice in particular, the more similar all dialogue becomes. If you want everyone to sound like they come directly from Tolkien or, god help us, Moorcock, well, you're on staff so I suppose you can do that. But there are much, much more productive things you could be doing with your time than playing word-police.

[putrid_plum]

LOL

[Lunivere]

Pretty damn solid statement from Lira there. Sort of what I was getting at in IRC, but much more eloquently worded.

[VengefulSeraphim]

It seems some people have their jimmies rustled.

[Ryan]

Every time someone brings up gratuitous swearing or even exhibits confusion at the word "fuck" in this setting I point them towards Gadyw Aberdenn. In other words: it's not unprecedented. A touch of class is great, but I take umbrage to the idea that it's somehow ruining immersion. Some people really like to swear, and characters who are low-brow by design should be free to exhibit such traits.

And with the other points, I have to agree that railing against contemporary shorthand and slang is ridiculous - no one wants to see references to memes and legitimate anachronisms, of course, but simple words and turns of phrase should not be such an issue for people, and certainly should not be indicative that someone's roleplay is somehow "improper" as is implied by this thread.

[granny]

I partially agree with this and I would like to work on Voideka's general concept, which is what I mostly conceive as the reality.

One good example to give emphasis on what Voideka has exposed is reflected in the cultural arrangements that not rarely are closer to the XXI Century Western Society than they are to the Middle Ages. The view of the children and its role in the society is a good example, for instance. The taboos, division of ages, worry and care that are given currently in the D&D's scene (or at least EFU's) are not the ones related to the medieval children. The concept of infancy as an age separated from the adulthood and that needs to be protected (the orphanage), schooled (the first sistematic institutions dedicated to the teaching of the masses were created in the middle of the middle ages and they were for adults, the universities) and nurtured (legal age for crimes, marriage and so on)  are a modern concept that started to be developed after the renaissance and would only be developed after the industrial revolution. Nonetheless, our EFU children imaginary framework is structured much around the contemporaneous view of the western culture. And not only it, if we start analyzing, we might catch other other escaping butterflies.

Add to it the Steampunk current trend and you could have some Victorian touch to it all. Currently I see the server much more as a crazy soup that has space for consistent, flavorful and intentional fusions and mixtures. I feel myself many times guilty on the in consistency issue. That is a difficult subject when English is not your Native Language (and when you do little effort to advance on it other than write, read and listen, but not study), and when you have little focus due to enjoying mixing too many things into the same bucket.

Those things pointed out, it is nice when you can structure a concept that would sound like a gangsta but for some crazy reason, it fits perfectly on the setting. Also, I must emphasize that I would love to see our more skilled linguists to get out of their pockets some Archaic English Speakers.

[Jayde Moon]

It's a small gripe.

Folks could go back and forth on this all day, whether folks would or wouldn't speak a certain way in a make believe fantasy realm based on our real world middle ages period (or even whether our real world middle ages is the only source of inspiration for the setting (it isn't)).  We could argue about whether we think it's silly to say 'Aye, laddie' if you are playing a dwarf (... for the... *sigh* Delvin..).  Just how scampish should halflings be?

The bottom line to take away from Lado's original post is that there may be some ways to really take your RP to the next level and really considering how your character would speak (rather than resorting to your own colloquialisms) could be one of them!

Maybe you have your heart set on playing a fellow who just calls everyone 'Guys'.  That's fine, even if someone doesn't like it, it's a 'small gripe'.  But at least it is something you thought about, rather than just a default word you use.

The other thing to take away from Lado's post is that:  "HEY, you guys are so awesome, I'm going to pick nits to really push us to the next level."

Don't take offense.  Take pride.

[Candyman2]

Minor issue, if it is one at all.

[Inquisitor]

I think if people saying, "Wait up" is currently note-worthy as a RP issue to be brought up in a community forum... then all of us must be the best Roleplayers in the world. >^.^<

[Big Orc Man]

Lira, I actually agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure why there is so much hostility there.

Ladocicea politely stated his preferences without any threat of punishment or heavy-handed enforcement.

There really isn't any need for such an over-the-top, inflammatory response.  

Let's keep things civil here in Discussion.

[Inquisitor]

Lado gave me bad RP tokens for saying "What's up" to some rock worms.