Barbarians

[zDark Shadowz]

I like the idea of trances, seems more in line with what a barbarian rage is actually like in my mind, not necessarily about 'getting angry' but entering a state of mind / focus that lets you ignore the frivolous things like pain and missing limbs.

Reminds me of how Drizzt's Hunter mode was written, and another story outside of FR setting I can't recall the name of where barbarians were like extremely talented warriors that repeatedly changed the tempo of their attacks to throw their enemies off.

This is another thing I was thinking of for barbarians, maybe trial it as a perk first and see how it goes?

Is it possible to have the barbarian rage scripted something along the lines of-

You enter rage, and a numeric value is set on the character equal to the (normal) duration of your rage. Rage starts off at the usual bonuses but a script begins running checks to 'turn off' rage each round rather than its usual expiry mechanism, this check could start at 0 and increases by +1 each round and only turns off rage once this value equals, or is higher than, the initial numeric value set when rage began.

Every time you kill (or knock out?) an enemy, this initial rage duration value could then increase by a number of rounds, maybe a random value between 1 and Con or Cha modifier, or dependant on the HD/Level of the creature KO'd/killed, effectively extending the duration of the rage.

You now have a barbarian that enters rage and gets rewarded for maintaining the momentum of the battle, setting the pace in a potentially dangerous way, maybe even throw in an additional bonus to reward barbarians once that initial rage duration number has been increased to a certain amount, a visual effect, maybe mild regen or temporary HP etc.

A secondary set of values could be set up alongside those expiration round checks where if a barbarian is not in combat for a duration equal to their standard rage duration it will also expire, using incremental integers that reset to 0 if he's in combat again (in case a massive horde of goblins has been Great Cleaved to death and that duration value increased too high)

[Kinslayer988]

Elaborating on the idea of barbarians having bonuses based on HP lost, I think it would be fun to see all barbs get bonuses the more damage they take. It would work like this:


Gain bonuses depending on hitpoint percentage:
> 70% gain +1 AC, 5% speed.
> 40% gain +1 AC, +1 Universal, 5% speed.

[JackOfBlades]

Double barbarian damage immunity while raging and extend the duration by charisma modifier.

[Gippy]

I love barbarians. I came up with that base package years ago... I think looking at them from a level 10 dueling perspective is not the right way to go. Ultimately there are 10,000 things that decide pvp and a perfect world slug fest is not one of them, the barbarian cleaning up your back line with a great axe and crushing face while your dueling fighter helplessly spends 8 rounds buffing before being dispelled and crushed... idk. I think these fights seldom exist in a vacuum, and when they do, maybe in a duel the duelist fighter should cripple the barbarian unless he gets the lucky 76 damage greataxe crit.

Fundamentally I think their problem comes down to supplies and sustain. Chances are you will never see a level 10 barbarian...

Healing
1.) slow passive healing out of combat?
2.) bonus to potion effectiveness
3.) herb bonus? Failure on 5?

Saves
1.) barbarian only loot? Unfortunate when loot is must have and you can't partake in the randomness of efu loot but maybe easy solution
2.) +1-2 to all saves at 8 depending on perk
3.) ??

Module
1.) return of svirfneblin defense device, aka THE EqUALIZER. Or similar items available mostly on low level quests. Dispel (5) and confusion charges. It's like giving all PCs a gun and makes being a pvp god way less possible.

[Cruzel]

Since a huge portion of the barb problem is lack of feats, why not give them save feats and maybe some others as they level up?  Hell, give them toughness for free at level 1 just to reinforce the "hp sponge" concept?

[Bacon_Cheese_Burger]

Why not just remove the powerfull fighter perks? Problem solved.

[zDark Shadowz]

In my opinion the strength of the barbarian is really all just 'while they are raging' which is going to be limited to 3x uses per rest for most players, which is why I suggested the way to extend duration through maintaining the pressure in battle.

If you look at it from the saving throws/ feats viewpoint, the Great Fortitude and Iron Will you can't afford to spend feats on are acquired through raging (+2-4 fortitude via con, +2 to will)

If you look at it from the damage side, you get more than weapon specialization would have granted as a fighter through the strength bonus +2- +4 modifier (and a little bit more for raging with a large weapon)

From the hitpoint side the base HP increases by another 2-4 per level so assuming both fighter and barbarian picked 14 con and toughness and neither are forcing HP rerolls its fighters 8-13 vs a raging barbarians 11-17 to 13-19.

The perks are there if you want to flavour the rages differently, but the standard rage let's you match and exceed a fighter at everything except AC, and barbarians can class skill Taunt that down if you're going directly toe to toe with a fighter. -6 AC

Barbarians get 4 skillpoints per level, if human and 10 intelligence that's enough for Concentration (cross-classed but increased during rage) discipline, listen, taunt & tumble (cross-classed), or you can sub out basic listen skill for that Spellcraft.

[wundyweiss]

Why not just remove the powerfull fighter perks? Problem solved.

Again, I must suggest that nerfing other strong things to make balance changes doesn't help. Buffing is better than nerfing- it's an essential fact of video game development. If we start nerfing fighters, they start to fall off farther than they already have. Fighters arent even at the top of the power scale, that title goes to bards and rogues at the moment, not including wizards. And basically there's no reason to nerf these classes either, because to do that you'd essentially gimp these two classes to a point of unplayability, which is where barbarians are at currently.

Making barbarians stronger, with the current suggestions in this thread, would help them get back into the game and be up to bar to compete. That's what we need to do.

[Decimate_The_Weak]

Static barbarian bonuses that could help round out the class;

Level 1: Bonus Feat: Toughness, less than 40% HP offers +1 AB and +1 AC.

Level 5: Less than 40% HP now also offers +2 Reflex and 10% physical damage immunity.

Level 8: +2 Will, less than 40% HP now offers an additional +1 AB and +1 AC.

-

Barbarian friendly equipment would also be very beneficial. +1 breastplate and chainmail used to be pretty common in previous chapters. They are basically non-existent now.

[Vlaid]

Static barbarian bonuses that could help round out the class;

Level 1: Bonus Feat: Toughness, less than 40% HP offers +1 AB and +1 AC.

Level 5: Less than 40% HP now also offers +2 Reflex and 10% physical damage immunity.

Level 8: +2 Will, less than 40% HP now offers an additional +1 AB and +1 AC.

-

Barbarian friendly equipment would also be very beneficial. +1 breastplate and chainmail used to be pretty common in previous chapters. They are basically non-existent now.

This is actually a pretty interesting way to make barbarians stronger. More health they are missing the more resilient and dangerous they get.
 

[The Old Hack]

This is actually a pretty interesting way to make barbarians stronger. More health they are missing the more resilient and dangerous they get.

Seconded. It's a bit like the Pit Fighter perk that way. The closer you drive them to the brink, the harder they fight. I really like this. :)

[Vlaid]

Unfortunately Talir mentioned in IRC that it is entirely too difficult to track when PCs take damage for any kind of percentage based benefit gains.

[putrid_plum]

That would be one sweet perk or general barbarian template DTW!

[VanillaPudding]

I agree with strengthening the core class at this point and not trying to just add more perks into the pool. Along with the theme DTW provided, here are some other ideas to possibly add in there


- Savage Path - The Barbarian is able to shatter the effects of any mind effecting spell through sheer instinct 1/rest/4levels. (Triggered on a failed will save)

- add 5/10/15% elemental immunity at levels 3/6/9 so long as they remain pure

- Bonus to climbing and access to discipline / listen based tracking to represent their affinity with the wilds

- Slow bleedout ability (double rolls for chance of success?) due to resilience

 - Break snare - Being accustomed to travel the wilds, the Barbarian has learned to break free of most entangling effects. Freedom of movement for 1 round once / day

Spring attack feat for free to represent their mobility in combat compared to a "plate" fighter

etc
 

[The Old Hack]

Unfortunately Talir mentioned in IRC that it is entirely too difficult to track when PCs take damage for any kind of percentage based benefit gains.

Maybe switch the burden of tracking to the player then? The Pit Fighter perk has a special ability that works like this, only it is set off by the player. The more badly hurt the character is, the more bonuses it gets, and lasts for a set duration. This new barbarian ability could work the same way and with full bonuses only available if the barb is at 40% HP or below when used.