Weapon/Item smithing with or with out DM's

[Epi-Spell]

I have stumbled upon a glorious feature of the game only to have my dreams squashed.... It seems DM's find it very taboo to ask for a personal quest to go weapon smithing.... and I can see why it would be like asking the DM's to always be there (very tedious) each time I wanted to climb or swim... So I am glad the DM's figured how we can have a balanced game if there is a penalty to climbing and swimming so it is not OP! We also know DMs want to reward veterans with personal quests! and wont that take away personal quests for veterans?
What if they had personal quests to have a house/home/personal cave with lock key and spawn point! Personal quests wont be destroyed by Items that have custom names or look different and have a custom description!
Now with that said... We all love a good and hard challenge to prove to our selves and maybe others! We know that we deserve the level we have worked up to if not we die as a sign saying you do not yet have skills or knowledge to earn such a value that is your own!
~But Epi-spell what does this have to do with weapon smithing....
~Response: Great question valued reader of this post.... It has to do with, would you like a chance once perday to see if you can go deep into the bowels of under dark to open a once perday [Making it near suicidal for non veteran players to make such a Journey quest to see if you could make a custom item.... [As this rule is to all items] lets say you had a 1/8 chance of destroying the item you have but you also have a 1/8 chance to make an Item better. by how much well one DM said a +2 will never happen. I am okay with this.... what if the weapon armor or what ever was able to look customized and maybe came with a once per day cast of a spell or an item that has custom charges and you can return to this dungeon to attempt to charge or not!
I would like to wrap up to say thank you to all of you who read all of this... I understand it is a lot! I am doing this cause I love to make things... that is one factor of mine craft that is so AMAZING. It doesn't have to be overpowered simply it is Just fun to create items if your a tinkerer or a maker. And unless we are a crowd favorite or a dm favorite we wont ever get that experience. cause it is taboo to request something so tedious... I'm glad we can climb with penalty it ADD's value to the game! It changed the game for the better!
I dont want to bug the dm's or feel second rate cause I asked to craft an item.... like I felt today!

Now
//
So if you "see" the value in a crafting dungeon quest limited to one person and this "sounds" good to have a one of a kind item
and this makes "logical" sense or you can expand on this sense then let the community know how you "feel" and maybe you can add to this idea!
That is all thank you!
~Epi-Spell

[Dillusionist]

If you're interested in being a craftsman, Alchemy and Herbalism are your best bet. Those crafting systems can actually yield a tremendous variety of equipment. It may not totally be appropriate for a weaponsmith... but you can make everything from jewelry and Ioun stones, to golems, to cultivating symbiotic plants.

Its not quite the same as creating things -yourself-, descriptions and all that, of course. But its definitely something to check out.

That being said I think a tailoring model that maybe allows you to craft generic arms and armor with custom appearances would be a nice addition (if it doesn't already exist) - if people want to sacrifice mechanical power for aesthetics.

[Zango_Unchained]

I like this idea, I think a crafting system based off metalworking and smithing would be nice, find raw ore in the underdark, someone with smithing forges it into ingots and someone with metalworking turns them into weapons, the highest quality weapons could have weight reduction and +1 damage of their type. Not exactly OP, and it would help open up more markets. But a crafting timer on the weapons and for a true masterwork a DM could step in if the smith was prominent enough for something like that.

Anyway, I think its a neat idea and would help us move away from the idea that "Goblins/Kobolds/and other filthy rattish races make the best equipment and humans and other races suck at it."

[PlayaCharacter]

Somebody has to write the code.

[Paha]

Feels to me you have a bit cynical approach here, to this subject, in all honesty.

We have had plenty of things people have "created" but as they are not full time crafters and want to also adventure, they cannot be expected to easily make do or whip up things. They however at times make weeks, or months lasting efforts to create something trough instructions they recover, schematics they find or theories they make, and in the end they may succeed or fail. In either of cases, it is often a great ride, with daily RP and goals towards this, doing quests of fitting theme or hopes of finding more information, clues or parts. There is however no free ride to making customized items or loot out of request and when ever one just wants.

I am not sure how this relates to veteran players, other than that they mostly know this and have an idea that will both be fun for many others, or know to work for it a long time and earn something similar through effort and good, solid planning and roleplay. You have not yet been with us longer than couple weeks, Epi-Spell, and have not even played one lasting character for that whole time. I would hope you understand that we can't simply fulfill every request for every character that pops up each day. What if that player does not play the character for longer than few days, only to quit and play another next week? That's really frustrating for us as DM's as well. We put effort and hours of time, days sometimes, to put together something for character, maybe a quest and loot, or even a plot and we would hope it carries on in game as long as possible, or has a meaning.

Now, the actual crafting system. We don't have a basic crafting for mundane armors/weapons, because of a few things.

For one, it is a lot of work for little to no gain. I see all the benefits of a system that we can just direct players to and say "Go spend time in that", except we don't exactly want players to spend ages on making mundane gear. It's surely of use in that regard, matter of personal preference more than any when it comes to crafting. It would however force us to reconsider itemization, value and balance of items and things.

Second is some manner of logic. By any logic or sourcebook, proper smiths that can make any proper usable mundane stuff, or anything better, have never been anything other than that - blacksmiths, workers and what not. It's a lifelong profession that takes time, and idea in setting is that folks are by heart and base adventurers born from different professions in early stages of their stories (Old or young, stories can begin from different points), and not specialized experts or masters at their field. Their mastery and place is forged through events taken in game. It's not always so simple, but that's the gist of it.

I get if someone wants to play a crafter, but system to fully utilize it in our setting without it getting out of hand, or it being of some interest both to DM's and players in what it brings, it's hard to fulfill. We have surely toyed around with ideas, and they've been brought up through the many years, and nothing has been able to satisfy the needs and strict qualifications.

[Epi-Spell]

I am first going to focus on paha's statement about logic....
"By any logic or sourcebook, proper smiths that can make any proper usable mundane stuff, or anything better, have never been anything other than that - blacksmiths"
Yet this server has gone as far as to include engineers.... by level seven or eight they are ENGINEERS... an engineer would be Irl like a level 12! at least... so your point there is invalid to me.
Now I would really love to point out something zango had stated
"Anyway, I think its a neat idea and would help us move away from the idea that "Goblins/Kobolds/and other filthy rattish races make the best equipment and humans and other races suck at it."
Now seriously last civilization on earth... and.... war has always favored those wit the best artillery... if these ceratures are the ones with better weapons the us... then sanctuary should be role playing a city struggling to hold off RAIDS... um... SERIOUS RAIDS.... I mean they have better weapons then us right? If that is the case... that balance is off cause they have the better weapons... should be roleplaying felt applied.... RIGHT? Does anyone truly feel the any has the BETTER WEAPONS... [lets not do that it cause it's hard enough....]
Now hell Let me simply ask this.... Why then can't I not do something so simple as to just customize the clothes I am wearing and or the weapons i carry.... not any BUFFS 0 BUFFS why can't those who spend the points into Smithing be able to do something? cause... um they are in you efuss points... YET TELL ME ONE THING THAT YOU CAN DO WITH THESE POINTS! nothing YOU can do only stuff A DM can do! So ergo my main point it is TABOO unless your like level 10 to even bother to have the rapport for that...
Lastly if the cities Crafters are only herbalists and alchemists... Underdark has the weapons and we have alchemy and humunculie... Yes I have been here for two weaks.... now but it I am not a small echo in the idea of customizing... lets take it step by step lets start by crafting our clothes the gear that we find.... that we like... [not smithed] and customize the gear made by gnolls and goblins and kobolds... let us customize their superior items  players can wear them... for example my friend dace unde bought a chasity belt that gave him +2 AC said thing is he is a monk and he wears robes... Ah the 800 gold he spent on it WASTED. The item useless....
Lets start here... since it is so taboo, such a headache, and addressing fear that items take DAYS irl to make and a your SERVER IS GROWING.... i met like ten other new people! so... you will have to change and find a solution to a GROWING server that demands more... tell me in six months when the daily average is 45 people on the server... how are five or seven dms... going t give attention to 90 characters a year from now? in six months those 45 average players will be level 10 and twenty.... so addressing this issue now will save headaches later on... but idk... is that a pain... a headache... that you can live with... so... a year from now putting it into perspective... lets say a third of them want items... so a third of 90 is 30.... 30 characters times lets say 2 days maybe three days including questing time to make an item... is  A huge 75 days for ONLY i mean ONLY weapon making... it will cost DMS 75 DAYS minimum to craft items... that is taking 75 DAYS away from everyone...
ok five dms... right so each dm spends fifteen days making items.... every month after six months from now.... OR you can suppress custom gear and play nepotism games in oh ill do it for my friends... NOW you are setting seeds to create politics in which now others will feel butt heart.... ah the headaches of more people maybe we should just limit it to 30 people... keep it small... I like this we still have a chance to get the special attention with out. nepotism.... the questions are simple... the choices who knows... How big will your server be in six months.... how much time do you want to spend creating custom items...? will you need more dms? will you make it smaller? maybe let us save time by coping how we systematize the climbing tool or the alchemy tools.... lets systematize item crafting.... dont forget CRAFTING REAL ITEMS COSTS XP!!!! whooo... XP!!!! is HARD TO GET! that ALONE could carry an argument for making items.... but bigger... server... more people.... hell I hope people dont invite their friends from face book... i will say some elements of this game blow SKYRIM away.... Maybe if you do find scripters... maybe Just maybe you could start a fundrazr to pay programers to do more shit... people pay like 10 bucks a day on shity ass phone app games..... but ... truly a growing server... means less attention more automation.... and that in its self is like four other threads...
But I understand... come six months from now it is a good thing spending 15 days just for item creation.... besides... people only want one custom item .... RIGHT? ya just a one will do ya! Just for the character.... Might I note that more means the more complex... a simple law of the universe.
Lastly I have the best way to keep this argument hush hush and not a problem.... REMOVE SMITHING metal working and this skills out of your efuss points... to be honest I seen I was decieved... kind of lied to that i can spend points there and get something... dont be an indian giver... Oh we have this on our shelves... but its not for sale... FALSE ADVERTISEMENT!
_
I like that argument so much ill repeat it FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.... if it is DM ONLY STRICTLY... don't flipin include it in engine related things! That way I don't feel cheated in advertising....
Epi-spell.... OUT PEACE *dual peace signs*

[Epi-Spell]

Incase the main point is lost in ALL these words... here it is... the reason all these words exist...
-I like that argument so much ill repeat it FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.... if it is DM ONLY STRICTLY... don't flipin include it in engine related things! That way I don't feel cheated in advertising....
Epi-spell.... OUT PEACE *dual peace signs*-
So what does everyone want? What will make most happy?

[Epi-Spell]

Also before you use the weak ass argument... ITS FOR ROLEPLAYING cool.... why waste trade points if you roleplay to craft a weapon came from a dungeon... or a begining item... why when it COSTS putting it there versus somethign that matters like climbing swimming alchemy ENGINEERING.... which... omg level two I can six points engineering.... lol isnta scientest

"By any logic or sourcebook, proper smiths that can make any proper usable mundane stuff, or anything better, have never been anything other than that - blacksmiths, workers and what not. It's a lifelong profession that takes time, and idea in setting is that folks are by heart and base adventurers born from different professions in early stages of their stories"

The engineers can do it... why cant the smiths... requiring less intelligence do
it?
I just feel like a victim of false advertising... nothing more... I'm not sorry if this rubs off on to others... False advertising is false advertising.... FIX IT OR REMOVE IT all i ask!

[Candyman2]

Epi-spell, kindly space your paragraphs so they do not appear as a wall of text. Secondly, please use proper grammar and punctuation if you want any of us to take you seriously. I understand that you don't feel inclined to do so on a forum, I was once like you, but very few people want to read a thread filled with grammatically hellish sentences and follow your reasoning because of it. Veteran players use proper grammar and format for a reason- it's much more difficult to be misinterpreted or misunderstood.

As to the terms of "Metalworking" and "Smithing" and "Mining", these are mostly flavor points a DM can look at and get an idea of your character. I will admit, I have played a blacksmith type PC before, and successfully forged magical relics for myself and other PCs with the aid of a DM possessed dragon. It was a fun, amazing time as long as I involved everyone in the process. However, those who invest in these efuss 'skills' do so knowing that the opportunity to use the skill will be rare.

The thing with scripted crafting systems, however, and this is also a problem with our alchemy and herbalism system, is that you do not need anyone to do them. You can feasibly go out into the wilds alone, gather raw materials, and dump hours into wordlessly plying your trade without getting involved with anyone else. I find this counter productive to server philosophy of involving others. As well, even if they do involve others, I don't find an adventure to find ingredients/ore to be particularly exciting or in keeping with EFU's Theme.

It is enough that the server allows for certain PCs who have cultivated a reputation of being a miner, smith, or metalworker (usually by simply writing a few books on the subject, going out looking for ore as an excuse to explore the server, and so on) a DM given opportunity to ply their trade. I think this is a much more special and meaningful opportunity than a scripted system that forges mundane items for little to no gain.

Hell, one of the best ways to become known for something is to simply give yourself a title by introducing it, "I am the Master Smith Helgrod Amatan." Or "I am the Confectioner Ysgrid", "I am the Sculptor of Requiem..." these are flavorful things, and with time, people will address you as, "Hey Smith", or "Hey Sculptor" and in time, a reputation will blossom from very easy, and simple things.

EFU doesn't need this, nor do I think it is particularly desired as we've proven we can be a healthy, vibrant community without it.

Addendum: It isn't false advertisement if the skills 'can' be used, you are only a few weeks old to the server, and yet you claim to have seen everything that can be possibly related to metalworking/smithing? Maybe you can find some scripted check that lets you make an item? I know there is a tailoring check somewhere, and a furniture check. Who is to say something similar to what you describe doesn't exist already?

[Inquisitor]

EFU will likely remain a moderate or small server, it's rare to see more than 40 players on at a time and usually it remains between 20-30 on a busy day. We have more than enough DMs (In my opinion) to observe players doing interesting things. There are also OOC notes you can leave for the DM community to let them know, "Hey, I'm not only quest grinding but I'm trying to plot to kill the Councilors".
 
EFU isn't supposed to be a personal "Me and my DM" sort of game. It's on the player to go out and forge relationships, alliances, make enemies, and ultimately cause some manner or conflict or drama (With other players). The best way to get DM notice is for the player-base to know about your PC, in-game and out.
 
Logging in, pumping EFUSS points into a predominantly 'roleplay' skill, expecting to be able to craft awesome or even decent loot is insane and potentially an entitled view.
 
This is just my personal opinion, but you should never make a character that hinges on DM attention or help in pursuing goals- not until you've put in a large amount of effort involving other players and spreading entertainment should you expect a DM might throw you a bone.
 
The DMs have a great reputation of handing out recognition and attention where it's warranted, and if you aren't getting the type of attention you feel you deserve I'd suggest you look at other players who appear to be and ask what they're doing that you're not. In most cases it's simple; Just involve other players, be creative and interesting, and you'll have fun.
 
(I likely didn't address everything, but it was difficult to understand what was being said.)

[Paha]

I mostly picked up this anger towards not being able to customize armor or make items as you want, or that one special item through grinding and creation. In all honesty I had to skim through your post a bit, because it is very frustrating to read.

I also do not understand this 'false advertisement' claim. We do not advertise ourselves as a world of warcraft or mmo, nor do we claim anywhere to have free equipment crafting system.

I respect that some want to make items, their own equipment from head to toe, I like similar things as well, though not in this game particularly. We've talked about this type of crafting for 8 years, it's been out in the open since the beginning. We have managed this far just fine without it.

It does not mean that we do not evaluate options and play around with systems. More than not, they just don't work in bigger picture from what we've tested.

If you want to make a suggestion, make a specific suggestion and give us ideas, and with all kindness, please Epi-Spell, focus some effort on articulation and writing as suggested above. Text forums are really uncomfortable and time consuming to read as they are, without constant dots and walls of text.

As a last point, what is absolutely certain, is that nobody will whip up themselves, on every character a special item just for grinding their heads off for a week or two straight. That just don't sit well with me. I don't want anyone to aim for that in lone hours.

[Epi-Spell]

Candyman, kindly I will simply say I know that in your "Addendum" which is your closing point. That simply I know about the tailoring checks. There is no, checks to customize the items you find! referring back to a chasity belt that are not robes, nor can it be given a unique name.

And Im glad you had a weapon smithing quest that involved others [Adhere to the masses] Horah! That is awesome! But much more work for DM's candy man... do you see your/our server growing? Cause I was told dm's can spend up to two or three days for custom per item quests [In bulk much faster].

Third, so something that is dangerous like alchemy and herbal-ism it takes away from community party experience... does it NOT ADD MORE value to that individual... such as your candy, then it would if it was not there? for individuals and the mass as a whole.

Fourth, "It is enough that the server allows for certain PCs who have cultivated a reputation of being a..." ...what ever the trade may be
I don't agree with this simply the game is fun... but is it to much to ask for to customize the way something looks? pay some one to customize an item you ALREADY have to keep its stats.... and name it your own? BTW it would never take away from a quest that a dm gives for weapon crafting cause... let me ask you directly candyman. Did every one get an item from the weapon crafting quest... as in there was no risk losing items... cause well people would feel cheated? Im sure DM quests will be great to guarantee item crafting by the end of all the quests and energy.

Also, Candyman can you make a strong argument AGAINST a once a day quest dungeon deep like four-seven areas away from sanctuary in which you have a 1/8 or a 1/15 The amount of times dms may make items in a quarter of a year! and to not waste the players time... the cave will give xp through monster kills and completion of the quest so that no weapon... no loss other than the weapon... or maybe you keep the weapon. I challenge you to prove why EFU does not NEED that! or WANT! Also other readers please share you thoughts on this paragraph more or less! For it is my point even though I am showing why i don't agree with OTHER peoples points that are not mine that effect mine.

As well candy man I LOVE your idea of how to be known for something I will apply this Immediately!

But the issue of will the server grow... stands! if it grows... do you implement a dungeon that has a forge nearby the drows or something of the like? Or not

To DM PAHA
Where in all of my arguments to you see one cynical thing why do you sense this... it is simply because you are a good DM you must watch for that... but to suggest in hint at I might have motive or intent rooted from being cynical it border line slanderous with out evidence... or simply cause I just new... please we both want a good server I would like an understanding here... I don't need an apology. I just wish to be understood!

In closing... the DM quests to forge items with the aid of a dragon... does that really call for points into smithing? it is the dudes trade.... because it is what he does to get by... not because he made one sword... if you made one car just one and sold that car for.... 100,000 is that your career? Or your pay for 2 years 50 k a year... that is not a career or trade. It was simply something everyone went and did the real trade in smiting here was the dragon that HELPED or made it possible to make these items... but what about the rings for couples or for guilds... maybe just add the script to also tailor the clothes you wear and the ability to name them at the tailors.... but to say i can craft weapons and then say NOPE IT IS LIKE A PRESTIGE SKILL NO NO.... then don't give it to the public ESPECIALLY for a growing server!

WHOOT PARAGRAPH SPACING WHOOOT WHOOOT

P.S. Is there even a place in the forums to REQUEST the process to get custom items? Maybe and I am quite sure i know of five characters people who have been on longer then me who would like custom items, {Yuki, Ezekial Hart [watcher], Dace Undy, Nuul shazeem, [Spellguard], Ana'vis or Habeophalemmaxiumus or something as an account name... Ana'vis is a caster all of them are level 6-8 also my fighter Arto is level six as well!

[SN]

Earn those 'custom' items by epi(c) actions?

EDIT:
Above might have sounded too harsh, what I meant is:

Go out in game, seek rare material, claim places where you will make your forge/foundry and what not.. Involve other players in the process of getting you the materials .. and I am sure a DM will take notice!

You can also use the Personal Characters Notes subforum to inform DM's of your plans, what steps did you take to earn "X", what steps you intend to take et cetera.

[Pigadig]

If just having a PC exist for a long time was enough to earn DM loot my average would not be less than 1 piece of DM loot per PC.

You need to either do awesome things, or be in the right place at the right time to go on dangerous DM events for loot. That's why it's special.

[Epi-Spell]

Inquisitor You make marvelous points and paha i notice you have close loped you

Inquisitor- although all points are amazing I am afraid one is a fear of something i am not arguing... "Logging in, pumping EFUSS points into a predominantly 'roleplay' skill, expecting to be able to craft awesome or even decent loot is insane and potentially an entitled view."
Now I don't personally care for buffs.. I already stated that I get that the gnolls and goblins make the better stronger loot... I get that. No I am just asking to customize these items we find!

-Paha The anger is three parts... one the your new you can suggest but this is the law of eight years but instead of thinking how to nudge a single centimeter towards customizing found gear erks me. I feel like im being inderectly accused of desiring to BREAK the BALANCE and I am this bad guy...

    Secondly the anger is I was like this is awesome I can make like wooden                        swords and then make darts or throwing stars... and all this stuff after all cal den made a freakin BEAM CANNON... I could make some stuff.... and have it my own only to hit this WALL of NOPE to mention this topic sends red flags of telling me paragraphs upon paragraphs of why not! of course after many (I don't knows,) and (Ya what d we do with those points) Yes I am jealous there is a beam cannon... I wana make something... I am very QQ

   Thirdly I am/was angry cause the topic felt so taboo... so many people who come off as if its not broke don't fix it... well duh people who think like that DON'T MAKE THINGS!

Crafting in alchemy: OMG just to successfully make a grey render mad was a dc check of 51 and an angry chicken did not even have a dc check! most things are a DC check of 5! not saying anything bad... just simply I thought that was the coolest SHIT EVER!

-DM Paha Now DM notice I had used the time frame six months 90 charaters... a third of them would make 30 people... let's say they all get one item.... that is 30 items... days spent making this items 90 days of game play in a six month period 180 days... even if not lets say it was 30 people wanted custom items in 12 months.... 90 days is nearly 1/4 a year in 360 days... will one quater of the yer be spent making custom items? your call you guys are the dms! or maybe two-tree days was an exaggeration to say .... something to the effect of.... Were not giving out custom items... cause if you don't want 30 custom items a year... then ... how many custom items are there? what are some real numbers or figures... I know it can take up to 15-30 min to make an item plus a server reset.

Lastly -Just curious where to post to ask for item quest. Like omg can I have a plain basic sword that has a cool name that I picked... and named... like nothing special other then it has a fancy name... omg... like omg... to much to ask for. I am also