Barb Changes

[KreShar]

Barbs seem to have been nerfed to the point where no one plays them :confused:. Fighters + Perks are better than pure barbs in almost every way. Theres just very little room for variety and versatility in barbs and barb builds. The best barbarian perk is not even available anymore (Hbala one).

For some reason, all the barb perks either make the barb weaker or are neutral in power added when compared to vanilla barbs :p. While all the fighter perks are stronger than vanilla pure fighters. While rogue/sorc perks make vanilla rogue/sorcs WAY stronger.

Also, with the charisma bonus nerf, its almost impossible to reach high tiers of rage unless you are certain races :eek:. I get why the charisma bonus was nerf, but there should be some middle ground.

Barbs greatest asset (their HP) most of the time is nullified by random HP rolls ;) .

Any flavorful buff to the barb class would be appreciated. Maybe give bonuses to the barb that is dependent on how hurt the barb is (an innate masochasm :mad:) or from the barb doing dmg (bonus dmg/ab after killing a creature, etc):cool:.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

I think it's worth conceptualizing some sort of barbarian subclass á la sapper/relic guardian/positivist. I don't rightly know what it would be, but I think it's a more interesting option than just tampering with barbarian perks.

[el groso]

It is very sad that the worst available race for barbarian is Half-Orc, and it is supposed to be their 'favored class'. Some rogue, ranger and fighrer perks have special modifiers for certain races, why not make it so for half-orcs who choose barbarian class. RSD who are half-orcs or half-elves get their CHA counting +1 modifier to calculate the powers cool down timer. I suggest that barbarians have +1 CHA modifier for rage purposes, and that would be just a good start.

[One_With_Nature]

It would be cool if all barbs had something similar to those zombies where there more damage they take of a certain source (Physical / Acid / Magic etc) in any given number of rounds they build up a resistance to it for however long deemed necessary giving them a bit more resilience the more damage they take.

[Pentaxius]

I agree with the CHA attribute and rage not scaling properly. Cost of point investment in stats increase linearly, while rage benefits are constant. Doesn't work well, and we end up with (the vast majority) of barbarian capped at 14 CHA, sub-race excepted.

I like the idea of some innate masochism. I think it would go a long way into balancing the class, and it adds a thematic mechanic as well.

What I like even more is combining them to solve the problem mentioned above.

Transcend Pain
For every 10 points of damage sustained in a given round, the barbarian gains (CHA MOD-2) DR and AB bonus for one round. When raging, this effect triggers for every 10-(CHA MOD-2) points of damage.

There. That perk here only has an effect on raw CHA mod +3 and above, and it scales linearly to make up for the crazy cost of higher CHA.

If you take 30 points of damage in one round, and you have 18 CHA, you will gain +6 DR/AB for the next round. If you have 16 CHA, you will gain +3 DR/AB for the next round. Pretty neat and thematically fitting.

[TeufelHunden]

I agree with most of the things KreShar said, but I don't understand why the cha bonus being raised with potions needed to be nerfed. Barbarans were not unbalanced or overpowered. They were a high risk high reward class that was either going to have glorious victory of be unceremoniously defeated. Fighter/rogues, fighter/bards, Pure bards, paladins, and clerics were all more useful at the end of the day for PVE and often times for pvp because they could afford more supplies than a barb who had to spend much more to be supplied. I feel nerfing them was completely unjustified and ruined a mid tier class that was perfectly balanced and brought them back to being a nerf yourself for flavor type class.

[zDark Shadowz]

Two of the barbarians I played in the past I just gave full plate to because not getting hit at all, and lowering the chance of being crit in the process, was far less costly both in point distribution and supplies  than wearing chain & drinking cat's grace every 6 minutes.

I think the % physical immunity should be applied while in heavy armor, the property itself is the only thing that gives barbarians an 'effective HP' beyond the little difference between the diced HP of d10 and d12, especially if the lower HP classed players  acquire a habit of dying to reroll for Max HP up to lvl 7ish to make their characters 'playable' in the mid-high quests (IE to survive the 1-shot crits from x3 / x4 weapon enemies)

The main issue that crops up for barbarians is the same issue for any other class, cost management. Cursed Perk is at the moment my favoured perk because of this. No need for rage.

Ignore potion & spell factors for a barbarian - supplies and spellbuffing companions aren't always going to be viable, and anyone can benefit from those bonuses - and look at the barbarian at face value.

A barbarian will have lower AC than a fullplate fighter. People with just a few points of AC take considerably less damage, and this effectively neutralises the % immunity that Barbarians are given.

Since barb/fighter multiclass isn't allowed on this server (which is absurd IMO only given there are D&D examples of barbarian/fighters) it takes a feat commitment to acquire Heavy Armor proficiency so it would not be unbalanced at all to apply the % immunity to barbarians wearing heavy armor.

Or maybe make this a new perk choice?

[holywaters]

I don't think barbarians have it too bad.  Rage is still very strong.

I do agree that I don't understand why barbarians can't multiclass to fighter, and would think that would alleviate any concerns people have with how barbarians mechanically perform.

[Saturnalia]

I don't think that you should have to multiclass to mechanically perform. Realistically how op did allowing cha buffs make them?

[Pentaxius]

Because Multiclassing with Fighter (Fighter 4, Barb X) is mechanically strong (and hence will become widespread...) while being polar opposites on the conceptual level. Does it make sense to be a disciplined, highly trained soldier, while being at the same time a savage, wild warrior? AFAIK is it not forbidden, it just requires an application.

I don't think the cha buffs made them OP, but it did make them extremely unlikely to ever invest in CHA beyond 14. I think, initially the change was done to increase build diversity. Which is a great idea, but for that to happen you need to change the scaling on CHA to reflect the linear costs increase of investing to 16/18 in the attribute.

[putrid_plum]

except ftr/barb multi is forbidden on EFU i believe... barbarians were very strong with the cha buff going into rage, you could pretty much beat anyone in PvP and most couldn't stand up to someone with max str crushing you down... honestly it's not a nerf and more of a balancing which NEEDED to be done... there was plenty of time to play a OP barb over the years and i also think Talir has said it wont be going back

[holywaters]

All multi classes are polar opposites on a conceptual level.  I don't understand why fighter/barbarian is singled out.  If anything, a fighter/barbarian makes more sense than a fighter/wizard or a fighter/bard.  But I guess that's a different discussion...

I don't think the life of a barbarian is terrible, but I can see the argument for a minor buff.  I could see the min value of a barbarians HP being higher compared to other classes or their ability to wear heavy armor without losing some of their abilities as fair solutions.

[Howlando]

I agree that barb got a little over-nerfed at some point and could use some tweaking. I don't think it's an emergency though. No reason to argue back and forth, if someone wants to make a decent & reasonable suggestion feel free and then maybe someday we can think about implementation.

I believe I presented my opinions regarding fighter/barbs here, if I must I can expand upon why I personally find that particular combination tasteless. It has nothing to do with polar conceptual opposites, I enjoy crazy multiclass combinations myself, if anything it has more to do with the fact that they're too similar mechanically and thus lose their particular individual flair if combined.

[derfo]

I've been wanting to make changes to barbarians again for some time (though that means nothing because I am lazy), but nothing here really and it isn't a high priority.

[One_With_Nature]

I think do away with the barbarian perks all together and give custom rage perks only and make some fundamental changes to all barbarians to make up for:

Custom rages could be very much in line with the current perks however I would recommend making them a player (free action) and allow them to continue beyond the base rage time with draw backs over time. It would have to be incremental increase in power but also sustaining damage over time so example vanilla rage would work as follows:

Rage grants +4 str/con for 7 rounds + Con mod/round before raging. For each additional round the rage remains active the following occurs:
1 round: +1str/con / barb takes 1d4 magic damage
2 rounds: +1str/con / barb takes 1d4 magic damage
3 rounds: +10% damage immunity / barb takes 1d6 magic damage
4 rounds: +1 uni saves / barb takes 1d6 magic damage
5 rounds: +1 ab -2 ac / barb takes 1d8 magic damage
6 rounds: /3 dr / barb takes 1d8 magic damage
7 rounds: +2 str/+2 con barb takes 1d10 magic damage
8 rounds: barb takes 1d10 magic damage per round, if the magic damage brings the barbarian to 0hp or less, he becomes exhausted and collapses disabling him for 3 rounds.

Obviously these bonuses could be changed depending on the theme of the rage.

Also give barbarians (who consume potions like crazy) a slow regeneration effect over 2 or 3 rounds dependent on their base heal skill:
5 base heal 1 slow regen
10 base heal 2 slow regen
SF:Heal +1 slow regen

All barbarians get base damage reduction of:
Level 1: 10% damage immunity
Level 5: 10% elemental immunity
Level 8: 20% damage immunity

The custom rage will make barbarians truly exceptional for short periods of time, having serious consequences if they push themselves too far. The slow regen will help a lot with consumption of masses of potions. The current rages feel underwhelming and more often then not do not add anything significant enough to make them stand out during their time of rage. This would effectively turn barbarians into temporary juggernauts which in my view is what they shoud be.