Improving Player Retention

[Pandip]

First off, I just want to apologize for the experiences that you've been having. It's not at all what any of us aim for, but I would argue that despite the best intentions the current state of the server has sometimes led to this sort of behavior. I hope you'll continue to give us a chance, because there are some pretty cool things that you can get involved in if you stick with it and I think the reward is very much worth the effort of trudging past the hard times that come with being a new player.

Cliques are good. They're a natural part of any social experience. EFU is no exception. Making friendships OOC is as important as making them IC. Don't be afraid to join groups. Hop onto IRC and ask for help if you need it. You'd be surprised by the amount of people that are eager to help out newer players. Asking something as simple as "hey, I'm a new player, my character is xyz, could someone help show me around?" might get a lot of responses. Enjoying EFU revolves around finding groups to be around IC. DM's are drawn towards crowds, especially if those crowds are filled with active and motivated players.

Applications also aren't hard to pass, and you lose nothing but the time it'll take to write one up. Players and DM's alike are more than willing to help out with applications and offer recommendations from experience. They aren't particularly hard to get passed and offer a fast track towards getting involved with things. Definitely take a look at some of the factions that are available; they all have a tendency to force a character to meet other people and get involved in server plots.

I personally don't know about the experiences in Sanctuary since I've only sparsely explored the area and the PC that I've been playing since EFUR started is a nature-based one. Nonetheless, I'd definitely take a look at Capricious' recommendation for a taste of the other side of the server. If you're available during CST/EST evenings, there's a pretty dedicated group of nature players that you can associate with. I can't promise the mechanical experience is going to be any more merciful than the one in Sanctuary, but I can promise that the company is good.

Again, I'd encourage you to hop on IRC. I'm Fitzwilliam there if you'd like to chit-chat on a more one-on-one basis. I'm also happy to respond to PM's on the forums.

[Jayde Moon]

Ebok, the 'cliques' you are talking about are different from the 'cliques' we are complaining about.

When a group of players edges out another player for no reason other than "We don't trust that the player will help our optimized group win", then that is really shitty cliquish behavior.

[Damien]

It's a simple fact that quests are hard. So hard and dangerous that most people ooc will make sure to avoid inviting too many people because it causes frustration and they might also die, and also from an IC perspective they know times are tough so why would they want to hire more hands?

There is currently no incentive to invite more people on most quests as it jacks up the difficulty. Quests are meant to be the fun thing we all do in order to obtain exp and supplies so we may do interesting things ig, such as exploring the UD, fighting strange and exotic beasts, and it also helps to spark conflict. The last point cannot be such a big deal most times but when we've three plus separate factions (upper, lower, wilderness, etc) and there is little to no conflict because people are too scared of dying and remaking.

I will say the lower to medium quests have been tweaked quite well, making it all far more manageable to begin with, but I'm afraid it tapers off past 6-7 drastically.

Oh maybe on the topic of conflict dms could go about possessing npcs to spark ideas in the minds of people, I mean I've not seen marge in weeks :(

[Ice Princess]

I can fully understand where you are coming from.  I have stood in front of various groups and tried to start a conversation, ask simple questions like "where might I find the Trading Hall?" or "I have a pie I am to deliver to X, where might he be?"  Things that would have taken someone 2 minutes (tops) to respond to. Things that should have let them know I was a new PC if not a new player. I was met with silence.. nothing was said.. not a twitch.  After standing there like a fool for a few moments I walked away.  Once I walked away the PC's returned to talking to each other.  Talk about making you feel unwanted.
 
I've played since Efu 1, and I  can honestly tell you I have NEVER felt this unwelcomed by other PC's.  If this is how our new players are seeing us.. man it's a wonder any of them stick around.

[Moonlighter]

I will admit I stuck around because of a few players (VengefulSeraphim and LordofCinder) and two DMs who went out of their way to make me feel welcomed and wanted on my first couple days on the server.

It also helped that I had another new player (MaimedGod) to play along with.

Ultimately I try to be somewhat helpful, no matter what my PC would do, to what I perceive as a new player. It's somewhat meta-y, I know, but it's what was done for me and it made me stick around.

[Jayde Moon]

It behooves everyone in this community to be welcoming to new players.

[goate]

Siren,

   Apologies :(.  Some of this behavior takes active conscious thought and effort to correct, and as human beings we tend to take the lazy path more often than not.

   Much of my time is spent in one of the more difficult and less populated locations in the server, Lower Sanctuary.  Due to low population, you might feel isolated some of the time, but I would love to be able to get you into a quest group.  We haven't had a full one in some time!  But, be prepared for increased difficulty.

   Even better, join our player faction! -> http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88009

Hope you stick with it.  My handle in-game is Gracken.

[efuincarnate]

What happened to Siren, is pretty awful. Sorry to hear it happened at all.  The game and this server has been around a very long time now, so Alts and secret accounts are very common, it seems to me that Players should treat any PC they meet ig as new, IC and Out unless of course you do know them. That said..it is an Ideal.  To the new Player, know that your handle does not necessarily tell any of us you are new.  As I said, Alts are really common, so are secret accounts for whatever plot is going on.  So, as it has been said here before, send us a tell.  "Hey I am new, got a second?" Or anything of that nature, I cannot think of one player on our server that would ignore that.  And due take into account if they are in combat, their is a fair chance they may miss a tell, so don't be afraid to try it again if you get no response. It's only the DM channel that ignores pleas for help--JK! They are also very responsive, you could send the same tell on the DM channel, and believe me, if one were on, some one would at least respond and do their best to help you.

On a personnel note-efuincarnate, just like the handle here, if you see me on, bug me, feel free. I would be happy to RP, show you around, or just say hello. That goes for anyone.  If I am not responding to a tell, it is usually because I am mashing keys frantically trying not to die, so try again after a bit.

I do hope your experience gets better, it took me a few months before I really started to enjoy this new iteration of our server, and I have years here..so communication and patience is the best thing I can offer, and do not let a few bad sessions taint your view?

[Nekhranokth]

...[COLOR="Red"]the battle song kicked in, and one specific "veteran" player turned back and started running[/COLOR]. I found it to be pure metagame but regardless, I acknowledged the behaviour IC and proceeded to run after her while yelling that it's not prudent to go back like that... She sprinted in heavy armour around the entire zone, aimlessly, [COLOR="Red"]disregarding my attempts at roleplay[/COLOR], until she stumbled into the group she was looking for, who were now on their way back. To make it more hilarious, [COLOR="Red"]the moment she spots them she changes to walk mode and carries on roleplaying with them, never stopping for a second to acknowledge my character.[/COLOR]

I would say tl; dr but Siren's post was longer and we got plenty who read that! And I think maybe some of you guys need to read this, too.

For starters, [COLOR="Red"]shame on any of you who do this[/COLOR]. If you have to, I strongly recommend you [COLOR="Red"]turn your music OFF [/COLOR]in order to prevent yourself from doing this. As the player of a character on this server, you have an OBLIGATION to act in a way that immerses not only yourself, but all others around you in this setting to the best of your ability. On THIS server, of all servers, it is a GUARANTEE that if you do it will be more rewarding for everyone, yourself included.

Now, Siren has described the perpetrator in this situation as a "veteran" player. I might infer from that that a "veteran" player has come to understand that interacting with certain other PCs is more likely to draw the attention of DMs than interacting with, say, Siren's PC. [COLOR="Red"]This is ridiculous and, if true, even more shameful.[/COLOR]

I know I'm coming on sort of hard with this post, but I feel as though if we have people using EfU as a medium for the sole purpose to running with their buds and killing things together with their fantasy-alter-ego-of-the-moment, disregarding (as Siren put it) attempts by others to roleplay in the process, it severely detracts from the quality and value of EfU. I may be a lowly player and I may be mostly unknown, but This server is MY treasure too, and [COLOR="Red"]every time someone does something like that I feel personally offended.[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Cyan"]***[/COLOR]Siren, I applaud you. I have witnessed behavior like this on several occasions myself, and to be honest, I do not acknowledge it IC anymore. If a player decides to pull something like this in favour of acting as their character might in a given situation, I no longer have any interest in interacting with them. I suddenly find their presence tedious instead of enriching.

Of course, Siren, I understand that we can't play police and we shouldn't have to and even if we tried it would just find another outlet, so my advice is to let it go, pretend it didn't happen, and distance yourself as well as you can (exceptional RP taken into consideration) from the players you come to realize cannot properly play their characters. (And this is what I see it as.)
I have no doubt that you will find people who are worth your time as an exceptional roleplayer. [COLOR="Red"]Don't feel like you have to submit to any sort of OOC behavior in order to experience the server fairly. If you EVER feel that way, we as your fellow players have failed you.[/COLOR]

I'm going to end this post now or I'll end up going on forever/burning myself out of playing here. I'm sure anyone who reads this much gets the point, and I'm sure [COLOR="Red"]I'm not the only one who feels this way.[/COLOR]

[Jasede]

Sorry to be a jerk...


Questing has been the least fun ever so far. Really. The rewards, the quests, the variety... nothing adds up. It's just a boring grind. I'm having no fun questing. Like, at all. It's just a slog.

I'm not a master player. Really, I suck. But I know how to quest half-competently at least and even with good groups, when you barely use anything, it's just... eh.

The quests aren't any fun. With how much EfU has always enjoyed doing quests this is just counter-intuitive. All the 3-7 quests are just dull and get repetitive since you need to do them so often. The "staple" quests make me groan. Moths... yay. Mudmen... yay. Gnoll cook... yay. It's like the time you'll spend the most questing in, you have the least variety of fun quests to do. The only one I like is kobolds; it's the most like an older EfU-grade quest rather than a mob-slog. Kobolds you crush or die in, the others you just kinda groan through for questionable rewards. Yeah, rewards, but it's like... come on.

I can elaborate if you want...

[Vlaid]

I would hope to see people bring a little less vitriol to this thread with their feedback and be a little more constructive in their  criticism. This kind of aimless negativity without a clear constructive  take away does more harm than good. If you can't be bothered to put together your thoughts in a constructive and well thought out manner maybe it wasn't that important to say.

Anyone who is new to the server or feeling frustrated and trying to work out ways to enjoy the server more are welcome to PM me IG, on IRC or on the forums at any time. My in game account name is "Veteran Noob".

Moving on...(for the new guys)

Get involved with people who are interesting, try to make characters who are interested in getting involved in the setting in some way.

Some very basic ways to get involved in the server:

• Advocates of one political guild or the other (don't be shy, even political groups in real life have a wide range of opinions and competency; being a poor advocate of your political guild is just as fun as being a good one!)
• Look through the public posters forum and the introductions and group management forums to get an idea of player groups doing cool stuff. If one interests you try and contact them and ask about what they are doing and if they would mind helping you concept something up to join in on their cool stuff
• Just off the top of my head as far as player groups go: the Wayfinders is probably the best faction ever for specifically new players to jump into and see a lot of the server, meet a lot of interesting people, and get intensely involved in the setting in a manageable fashion.

The setting is amazing, crafted with painstaking love and I feel like we've barely scratched the surface of what's in store. But trust me when I say if you only aimlessly run around questing you aren't getting the full picture of why so many people passionately love EFU.

[Paha]

I have to say, I respect all feedback and notions of what can be improved, but as Vlaid says, some of these comments just hurt and make me depressed as part of the team.

When you say all our quests are dull, or stuff is bad and how nothing is as it was in Mistlocke, then you do not provide details or proper plans to improve them, it really feels disrespectful. I repeat it a lot, because it feels like players forget it and do not even try to show some patience with it - we do not get paid. We work to feed ourselves and do all we do, putting hours, nights and days into working things so we can all enjoy things - all during our spare time. It's a hobby.

This new chapter is only few months in, and it's a new surrounding with nothing left from Mistlocke in sense of things to do and what we could use. Mistlocke was build on efu:a , and had the advantage of making use of what was already in place in great many ways to double the content, so to say.

When it comes to quests of EfU:R, we got more quests than seemingly all of you know. Some are really dangerous, some are less so. There are more quests out there that people -still- have not reached to, and it's by design that we don't want everything to be in one place at your feet. They obviously do not number in comparison with Mistlocke chapter, but hey, only couple months have passed and we obviously did not have all that Mistlocke had last year, already when Mistlocke started.

We are adding new content, new quests, changes, fixes, polishing and detailing things, but as much as people think otherwise, at times, efu moves a lot with player force. New chapter was in the works a long time and even in that time, not everything possible could be brought in, which is given.

Some things changed as players did things, and we've had to actually make changes because of it already. Majority of efu is though in player actions and plots, rather than just questing and other things. They are obviously very important daily part, but I would expect some respect towards us, as fellow players and people alike, even if we are DM's, to have patience. Either do your best to enjoy yourself, take time and effort to seek around the setting if you feel normal closeby quests are dull, because there are more than those, or give us suggestions and ideas with detailed plans and tools we can use with as much ease and time as possible, if you wish us to make haste with something.

Greed and disrespect to work of other players and DM team has been something that has greatly gone up with the latest chapter, which unfortunately tends to shadow the great RP that has improved and created many far more "realistic" situations in game, resulting in amazing scenarios and plays. I've enjoyed improvement from old and new player alike in great numbers on many events, but the OOC attitude and way to provide feedback or request something has gone to a level of a kindengarden kids. This does not include everyone, obviously, but this kind behavior was far less brought up in past years.

Please. Enjoy yourselves. You're the only one that can make it happen in the end, no matter what content we provide. Secondly, give us suggestions as usual, and don't trash others ideas - have respect towards others and even us DM's, not because we are DM's but because we are just here to have fun, like you. We do this because we want to enjoy it, and if we stop enjoying it, then so will the progress be stopped.

More content and things will always come. We do as much as we can with time spared from our sometimes busy lives.

[Jasede]

I know, I know. Posts like mine just cause burn-out and aren't constructive. If it's okay I'll write a post where I'll try to carefully outline what could be improved in the current quests.

I'm very much aware EfU:R is still fresh. I mean, we've been through this a few times. I know you guys work very hard, for free, so it's kind off rude to hear that something is 'dull'. And I know I can be painfully blunt.

But realize I /love/ EfU. Always have. So it's important to me, and I want it to be the best it can be. I'll go ahead and explain my concerns once I can compose a calm, rational post.

Until then, please understand, that it's still the best place to play on, and filled with amazing stories. But it's not perfect, never will be, and especially not while it's fresh from the presses, and I'm sure it'll merely continue to gradually improve, as it always has.

Peace.

[Siren]

I'd first of all like to thank everyone who's commented on my previous post here, whether the response was encouraging or otherwise, everyone shared their thoughts and perspectives on how to best enjoy the server. It'd be out of place if I didn't say that there's some great people here, both player-side and on the DM team, and if any were wondering, I am still playing under the handle "Snoozing Mermaid".

A few have reached me through forum PMs with supportive words and Jayde Moon was extremely kind in not only talking to me on IRC about how I could have more fun, but also in putting together a build that's both mechanically viable and fitting to my character, seeing that I'm apparently not very good at making characters efficient in combat. The server's exceptionally hard as it's been said (which is a great trait), and there's no way I could have built a character like the one I have now with my knowledge of NWN's mechanics. I believe I've learned quite a bit!

Also, Paha, I hope that my previous post wasn't demotivating in any fashion and that your feelings stem from subsequent entries in the thread. If I sounded unappreciative of the server in any fashion, then I sincerely apologise, because that wasn't my intention.

Regarding the new chapter, I think the atmosphere is amazing. I wish I could say that it's better or worse than Mistlocke, but after a while of playing here, I still can't compare the two. It feels very EfU-esque, if that makes sense, but it's an entirely different beast.

Starting with the environment and vibe of the server, it now feels less fantasy-esque (which is a much appreciated change for me, as someone who's not really a fan of FR's lore) and more "steampunk". I absolutely adore some of the areas, the machine in particular.

Regarding the quests, I don't really agree with Jasede in that they're "dull", but I think I understood what he's trying to say.
Some of them have slightly less replay value, and I will do my best at explaining why I think that is.
Going back to Mistlocke, which had the rock beetle quest where you harvested their glands and were trying to find a wizard's assistant, the dungeon would change, for example. I recall sometimes one way would be blocked off by rubble, and you would have to take an alternate route and run into a pair of scary spiders that would easily kill anyone unprepared.
Well, it basically made it so that the player's experience was likely to change the next day and even someone who'd ran all paths of that dungeon before would return and go "gah, I'll have to fight the spiders, got the worst dungeon possible" and have to adapt their strategy. It was a subtle little thing, but an engaging one at that, because regardless if it was the same quest, you didn't know what you would encounter. Also, in addition to searching for the wizard's apprentice, the quest had you harvesting beetle glands, which sort of made it so that you had two goals during one dungeon; it really enhanced the fun factor to see how many beetle glands you could harvest without screwing up and improve your reward. This, paired with the fact that money was scarce made the dungeon feel both worthwhile and rewarding, aswell as unpredictable.

Now, if we compare this quest to the Gardener's one at Starag's rest... you are also searching for someone's assistant, but the dungeon is much shorter and essentially consists of beating up a few walking mushrooms. I think it's great fun still and enjoy doing the quest, but I can't lie and say that it's as captivating as the rock beetle quest from Mistlocke.

I think that's what Jaseden was trying to say when he used the word "dull", but as he said, he loves EfU.

Another quest I used to enjoy in Mistlocke was the grainery infested with goblins, simply because of its mechanics. The dungeon felt really clever in how it had hordes of goblin archers and you were forced to either take cover or get shot down. The dungeon was just mindless fun; there were so many squishy enemies that were vulnerable at close-range but deadly from afar, that it forced you to think and use precaution. Being able to turn around a deadly situation made you feel engaged and involved; something as simple as taking cover made the dungeon a unique experience.

As a last example, the cheese shop cellar with the rat infestation... the quest was a lot of fun aswell, mostly because of the challenge that the oozes presented. They were immune to physical damage, so the player was forced to think of an alternative to bypass them... whether that was using speed to escape, luring the mob onto a separate room and shutting it in or even applying Alchemist's Fire to your sword to be able to damage them momentarily. I vividly remember running around, chased by a horde of rats and deadly oozes, trying to slay the rats so that hopefully I would have enough time to use an Alchemist's Fire and be able to deal with the oozes before it expired. Again, the consumables you found in one quest would be valuable in the other and it felt as if most things required planning and like every trinket could be useful at some point. That's what made me enjoy Mistlocke's dungeons so much, to the point where I'll say that their dungeons were better than that of any other PW or campaign I've played through in single-player. I understand that for the DM team to surpass something that was perfect is a very challeging task and I hope that EfU:M doesn't become an evil ghost that applies pressure on the people working on the server's current iteration.

Now, I've found most of the new chapter's quests to be satisfactory and fun, even after repeated runs, but I can't compare them to Mistlocke's because they feel simpler and more straight-forward in terms of mechanics. I feel like some of them have room for improvement and being reworked, if only to make them more distinguishable from one another. I wouldn't be surprised if that was on the DM team's plans, considering that EfU:R has barely just started! I should stress that I am not disappointed in any way. I am loving Efu:R for what it is and quickly growing very fond of its new atmosphere.

I don't wish to make another huge post however but I'm afraid it might be too late for that already... -.-

So on that note, I'll just suggest that maybe there could be a thread where players submitted suggestion for quests and dungeons? I would even be glad to volunteer for designing some myself (or at least their layout, seeing as monster stats may prove a challenge), if they can somehow be implemented onto the module like that.

There's something else I wanted to touch on, that I think is the most vital thing for EfU:R to improve on module-wise, but I believe the "Feedback" thread in this section might be more appropriate for that, so I think I will end my post here.

Sorry for being so extensive once more. I'm sure that the DM team is well-aware of any points I tried to make with this post because it seems we're all blessed to be under DMs who do listen to player feedback and I think that's what got EfU where it is now, with such a dedicated playerbase! Proof that they're aware of the playerbase's opinions is the fact that someone has recently just joined the DM team to help with the area design, so I'm stoked to see even more improvements! I have a lot of trust in this server's DM team after seeing multiple things that they've been able to pull off, so I'm certain that our new chapter will turn out being a very memorable one!

[Sarvak]

Are you a player that briefly tried EFU, couldn't get into it, and didn't come back? Would you like to describe your experience?

I joined the server a couple of weeks back and my first impressions were good, people were RP'ing, starting up wasn't so difficult with the quests and the community seemed friendly to new players.

What turned me off after a while were two things mainly, the first being the grind.
I know NWN servers are bound to have grinds, I even expect it. But from my initial experience the grind consisted of going to the same 3-6 areas depending on which level you were over and over again (And if there's more I haven't seen it's because I could only find parties for those same areas).

The second being the seemingly arbitrary way dungeons is handled "Someone else is inside so we can't do this place" "We're one too many people for this dungeon" "One of us has done this quest before, leave the party" and others like it have been a common sight for me thus far. On more than one occasion I've had to leave a group because there were too many people for one quest, other times I've had to walk away from a dungeon or wait for a long while because someone else is inside.

It rubs me the wrong way when you effectively can't interact with other adventuring parties and need to prune who you bring with you to quest very carefully.