Improving Player Retention

[Heavyfog]

I have read all the recent posts on this thread. I have played EFU off and on for years since the first EFU.  I have also witnessed the kind of treatment Siren has brought to our attention. Personally most of my PCs have typically gone out of their way to aid new players.  Sometimes my concept and new PCs concept are not really complimentary and often my PCs will give loot/gold to a struggling PC (especially in the current chapter) and try to 'bring them into the game' through RP etc.  More times than not, however that PC I have spent time showing the ropes to/giving loot to is never seen again.

This becomes a drain on supplies in the current setting if you want to give meaningful supplies to random PCs that are never seen again.  This becomes even more of an issue when the above is repeated several times and none of the PCs are played more than a week or one night.  It leads one to OOCly blow off the people that seem to have 'noob problems' because time spent with their PCs is usually (and unfortunatly) a wasted effort.  

This saddens me and does little to help the server.

To address these issues I suggest the following:

1) In the PC creation area somehow let new Players know that it is best to STICK WITH ONE PC.

I hate it when a player just up and quits a PC for some new concept on a whim and seems oblivious to the fact that others have invested time/energy/loot in their characters story and perhaps are even working IG to bring their PC (that they just quit) deeper into the awesome that is EFU. Wasted effort like that hardens people OOC.  

SO if you are new, make one PC and stick with it for at least a couple weeks PLEASE!

2) MOAR LOOT (stingy DMs :wink: )

It would help address this: http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=372453#post372453

One thing I noticed playing on EFU:M is that most PCs were not wanting for loot.  RP always came first, your PC always came first, plot always came first as loot was MUCH less of an issue.  This makes EFU better imo.

Most the times your PC died in EFU:M was because YOU the player did not use the tools at hand to successfully meet the challenge.  Many have died to simple things with a pack full of awesome potions because they are being 'saved' for PvP/DM quest/whatever.  

Loot bloat is an issue. HOWEVER: (outside of PvP becoming a potion chugging contest) LOOT IS A GREAT EQUALIZER!  Even if you are low level/a crappy build/etc a supply of loot can let you overcome some situations where your PC would otherwise be somewhat useless/dead weight/easy PvP victim.  

Also people love collecting loot, as players it brings us joy; much as the comfort of having an ale or 10 to sooth our IG booze addiction. ;)

Those are my thoughts on how to improve new player retention.

[Whim]

The last player I introduced had a terrible time staying alive. He died twice before he made it to Mistlocke (remember the holes in the bridge? Good times!). Once he found his footing, he managed to reach the giddy heights of level four. He then went on a PC led chase to hunt a high level PC werewolf (lol) and promptly used all his supplies getting his arse handed to him. He wasn’t killed, but without healing died on the next quest, then the next. He ended up falling to level 1, and quit because he couldn’t find a quest he could do (minimum quest level was 2 on all the QAs).

I'm the player in question. I've recently started an EFU:R character and today I got to the point where I wanted to quit again because I keep getting killed by small things, often random spawns outside quests. I've spent several days trying to get up to level four. Finding this thread has helped, because it's made it really clear that you guys do want to help new players have fun, and because it's helped me identify some things I can do to have a more enjoyable time. There are some things I would like to know or have known when I started, and I wonder if having a thread in the new players' area with advice on how to get the most out of the new player experience would help.

I still don't really know what to do when I get killed on my own by spawns (which happens a lot) and I feel like I'm hassling DMs when I ask for my character's corpse to be moved, since re-spawning will just get me killed again. Do I need to spawn in town and get people to help me out?

A general idea of what sort of things to hassle DMs about, how to get help, how to let other players know you're new, would also be really useful.

I think it has been a mistake to keep trying to run barbarians. I'm aware that the server is hard, but this has been difficult to manage in a role-play sense because my characters have been pretty headstrong, so running away from kobolds seems dishonest to the character, but fighting them is likely to get him killed. Perhaps a note on the role-play implications of the server's difficulty could be included? I know it sounds obvious but I think it really would have helped me.

I also think some information on how to get involved in the role-play elements would be useful. I've only just found the 'group management' section of the forum. I think a link to that would be really handy. Could it also be worth talking about the potential for affecting the world without being involved in a faction?

Also I noticed there was a list of quests for EFU:M. I'm not suggesting the same thing, but could it be worth including a list of quests that are appropriate for low level characters? It can be a pretty big ask to have to go out exploring from the word go, with all the attendant dangers, and no assurance that you'll find anything worthwhile.

I really like this server, and I mean to keep playing, probably with a new character who has a more interesting story that suits the environment better. It's the role-play that keeps me coming back, but those experience drops can really make it hard to get involved. I think for me, knowing how to get involved in the role-play, and how to avoid regular deaths, will really make a difference.

[Moonlighter]

I still don't really know what to do when I get killed on my own by spawns (which happens a lot) and I feel like I'm hassling DMs when I ask for my character's corpse to be moved, since re-spawning will just get me killed again. Do I need to spawn in town and get people to help me out?

A general idea of what sort of things to hassle DMs about, how to get help, how to let other players know you're new, would also be really useful.

There's no shame and it's no hassle to ask for a corpse clear from the DMs, since it can be done without even logging into the game/even from mobile phones. Just ask!

[Valo56]

Sorry if I echo someone else's comments, I haven't read all the posts.

Retaining players can start with things we, as players, do.

Recruit for your factions, and find ways other PC's can help you. Are you an Ordinant? Post bounties on proof of aberrant kills. Are you an Alchemist? Hire people to go and collect supplies. Find ways that you can give stuff to PC's who do things for you. If you have an idea that's really awesome that you'd like to be able to get people to do, but need a DM, perhaps ask a DM for help in it. The worst they can say is "No."

Finding folk new to Sanctuary and giving them tasks to complete will go a long way to keeping them engaged and interested in EfU.

[Howlando]

Hello Whim. I'm sorry you've been having a hard time on EFU. On a whim, I pulled up the death logs and noted where and how often you've been dying - ouch!

The problem with documenting every little thing is that a lot of our new players complain that there's just too much to read - and I suppose there is. There are some OOC guides in the starting area, though, that might be helpful. Particularly the walk-through. There are also NPCs and placeables that offer some decent IC advice scattered around Upper.

In your case, it really looks like you just got in this death-spiral where with every death you were lower and lower level and thus less and less likely to survive in the areas you were.

I can imagine a headstrong, brave barbarian would very rapidly be biting off more than he could chew. Particularly if he was on his own, without good friends to help out.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but (contrary to previous chapters) we have an entire area which is pretty comfortable for low-level PCs. I speak of Starag's Rest and the Worm Pits. Although in general principle we dislike MMORPG-style "newbie zones," in this case I think the Worm Pits is fairly appropriate to EFU and a decent place to hang out until your character gets stronger. Finding other PCs to help you tackle some of the low-level quests in there is a good way to make some IC friends while doing quests that are very unlikely to kill you (although the Ventilation Shaft quest is a bit dangerous for the unprepared).

For any future deaths, it's completely fine to ask for help from the DM team. Believe me, we're much more enthusiastic about helping out a new player than most of the other things we spend our time doing.

Even if no DM is online, you can pop onto our IRC channel #efu and ask for help there. We don't even have to log on to clear your corpse, but can do so with a web console.

I am also fairly sure that if you send most players (the ones that seem to know what they're doing) an OOC tell asking for help they'd be very glad to help out.

[Whim]

Thanks. It does sound like this situation has been pretty specific to the characters I've been running. As I said, I do mean to keep at it, but with a character with more discretion and a more fleshed out story.

[gravekeeper]

The problem with documenting every little thing is that a lot of our new players complain that there's just too much to read - and I suppose there is.

I think that the problem is not about all the things you need to read. All new setting or system requires some amount of reading. To me the great problem is finding out what you need to read NOW. I mean, what kind of info is more needed to you at that moment.

The structure of the forums is something that makes it harder to find out information than other options, like the wikis. I think that a project of grabbing all the information spread around our forums and structuring it around a wiki with decent indexing would be worthwhile for both new and old players to know what EFU is all about.

I am sure that old, more galvanized people are used to forums and have little to no issue into finding stuff. But still... there is a lot that is not even covered in our forums (including several commands available in game that could make the life of people terribly easier). I really think that everyone could benefit from a more organized and structured gathering of our produced knowledge. Not that the current isn't. It is incredible the effort put so far both by DMs and Players. But the Tools choice matter a bit in how effective the results would be. Forums were better designed for discussion. Wikis are a better tool for presenting, organizing and delivering info.

[Blue41]

The search tool works pretty well. Fairly sure there was a wiki once and it was put down quickly once people started cataloging info that was better off FOIG. Were that to start again, I imagine you'd need a DM to police it- and why do that when we have so much stuff to read right here?

It would be interesting to know what a fresh player to the server would be interested in knowing first. Setting and mechanics would be my guess, personally.

[Howlando]

I do not object to the creation of a wiki managed by trustworthy members of the community.

I am not willing to make one myself.

[gravekeeper]

Eh... I'm not exactly a new player.

And regarding

(...) and why do that when we have so much stuff to read right here?

As I told you, the "how" you access it matters. The search tool is a bit counter intuitive for the new arrivals and it took me a while to get used to it in my two years of EFU. You don't have a good indexing and easy topic access.

Also, my suggestion wasn't to start thinking on what kind of contents it would have. Just gather all that the forums provide and restructure into the Wiki.

[The Samophlange]

I actually think the Wiki, or something similar, would be a very good idea. I am a somewhat new player, and I can recall being very frustrated with trying to use the forums to get my bearings when I first began. The search tool works fairly well in finding information, but often I would find posts from so long ago I had no idea if they were even still relevant to the current era.

[Moonlighter]

I'd be willing to help in the creation of a wiki, if it counts for anything. I'm still a new player, but I think that that perspective might help.

[Whim]

Since my last post here I've been trying to come up with a new character who has more reason to be involved with other characters, as well as the life of the server. I've got a fairly good idea of what I'd like the character to do, but the problem I'm running into is that I don't really know how I'd achieve it in game (preferably without relying on DM intervention). The impression I get from what I've seen of the server is that you guys have created a huge and somewhat complex system allowing characters to do a lot of things other than combat and it can be difficult to know what's possible without extensive reading and some experimentation. New players are most likely used to NWN being combat and not much more. Could it be worth having a thread where new players can post ideas they have for characters, along with what they plan to do in the game, and more experienced players could give them direction on how they could achieve their plans within the game's system? People could also post descriptions of what their characters are doing, along with an explanation of how it's done, if they're comfortable with that, I understand that some players may want to keep this stuff secret. I think making sure new players have the tools they need to run the characters they want to run would keep us involved with those characters, and stick with them, it would also ensure we've got things to do other than questing, and better reasons to communicate with like-minded characters, so that when we do go questing, we're more likely to be in a group we've become comfortable with, and thus, less likely to die alone out in the underdark.

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

Like you say, posting what is happening ingame is difficult and what players are trying to accomplish is tough as people want to keep their secrets.

But there are places you can look for ideas on what PC's have done in the past.

Check the screenshots / character obituaries for some ideas of what can be done.

Check the IC public forums / bulletin boards and letters sections to get the gist of what some characters are trying to do.

Use the personal character notes section to tell the DM team or chronicle for yourself what you are up to and what you want to do.

I guess as has been said already it's tough to root these forums if you're a newbie by looking among the utter MASSES of documentation that has accumulated for this 10 year old game, but they are there, and people are always willing to help, I hope!

[gauntlet]

Not sure how things have progressed here with this thread, and I haven't been able to play efu since my personal laptop died many months ago, but I hope to come back someday.

During my time playing, I was a newbie-welcoming machine. My RP is far from perfect and my skills in NWN combat are probably somewhere below average, not quite bottom of the barrel. So I understood what to do and not to do with new players, for the most part.

Safety first!

Nothing kills interest like killing a new player, either via PVP (extremely rarely) or monsters on field/quests (extremely common). And if I have to metagame a bit to keep a new player safe, you bet I will.

For example: Doing a basic rat quest with just me and a new player. I know the quest OOCly, and I know the boss is a wererat, for which we'll need magic weapon to hurt and defeat it feasibly. As we are approaching this boss, my character might say something like "Something unnatural is causing all these rats to appear. We might need to enchant our weapons to face this threat, so keep that spell/scroll/rod of magic weapon at the ready" (or more likely, "we must be close to the main threat, let's enchant our weapons now, just in case").

That's just an example. It's all done to reduce the "bad luck" factor that can happen at low levels, that can really ruin a new player's day. Other times, I might be a bit more vague, with something like "I get the feeling the next room is gonna be really dangerous, be prepared to use your strongest potions" or "I get the feeling that there is a highly dangerous trap by that chest, so don't go near it till we are certain" (this is whether I see the trap or not). These things I only do with new players out of necessity to keep them alive, at least for a little longer.

To help, I also usually say things like "don't draw attention to the enemy too much, let me do that. If you do draw attention, try and get away, or go on the defense with invis/expertise/etc..". Of course, I tend to play with a character that takes point. If I don't, then I usually focus on keeping the new player alive as much as I can with healing/protection/etc... at my character's expense.

It's a victory if the new player survives. Whether my character dies or not matters a lot less. In fact, dying -> loses exp -> loses level -> is now closer to the level of the new player -> can keep questing with new player -> success!

What? Don't look at me like I'm crazy! This is proven stuff.


So, disregarding the slight meta-gaming, there are two problems I have encountered doing the above:

1. Who is/are the new player/s?

There should be a way to mark these players. If not automatic, maybe something optional at the OOC starting area that a new player can easily 'enable', that lets someone like me be able to tell that this character in front of me (or through looking at the player list) is the first character of a player account on this server, and take into account the IP or something.

I don't know if this is just not feasible or its not done due to something else.
I know that veterans make new accounts to hide their identity, blah, blah. But these veterans are not constantly getting new PCs, are they? Or changing their IP address or whatnot?

And even if it cannot be tracked like this, something optional at the starting area, that veterans would be wise enough not to use, would be great, I think. In theory. The DMs could always implement something and then see how it goes. And if its not good, take it away. The details would be up to them.

All I want to know is if, the character over there roleplaying pretty well (not like a pro, not like a complete newb either - because those can be somewhat easily identified as new players) is a new player 'trying', or just a regular that's trying to refine his/her RP (like I am).

I can always send a tell, as I generally used to do. But that breaks RP, and leads the new player to send me a lot more tells, and do less RP. New players are especially sensitive to tells, since they are usually trying to reach out to get a hold of the server. I prefer to use them with new players at the end of a session rather than at the first meeting ('hey, have to log out now. Been fun playing with you, and would like to do it again. Make sure to check out the forums at efu.com! Send me a tell next time I'm around').

2. Quest level restrictions  

Once in a blue moon, my character would go past level 4/5. And all of a sudden, my interactions with new players take a steep dive, since I can no longer quest with them on "safety" quests that get things going with a new player.

So in terms of questing, I have three choices:

A. Show them a lowbie quest they can do by themselves or someone else. Try to find this 'someone else' through sending or some other way. If by themselves, if the quest is at all dangerous, I could be sending them to their deaths (and I have!).

And trying to find another low-level player to accompany them is not that easy at times. And can be quite odd from an RP perspective ("hey, here's another stranger! Why don't you 'pair-up' with him to take down those nasty zombies").

And besides, it feels like a "hey, I have no time/don't want to quest with you, so do it yourself, or find someone else to do it with", even after explaining the mechanical 'whys'.

So, not my preferred choice.

B. Take them on a more dangerous quest that is appropriate for both our levels, generally with a group. Seeing as I myself can struggle greatly in this mid-level quests, I won't be able to quite protect this new player, thus quite likely leading to their deaths. I try things like "stay back, and use this crossbow." or "Here, use my shield, which is better, and take this rod of healing. Use it generously".

Again, my own character's death is not the problem. My creed is new player survives -> I win! This is hard to do, especially if its the first time the new player is doing a quest/a mid-level quest. Might as well just tell him "By the way, the monsters say 'you're not welcome!'"

Not my preferred choice for new players either.

C. Do other stuff. My other options, which are quite varied, but will likely not provide mechanical rewards for the effort. Guided tours of areas, chat at the inn, sparring matches. More interesting, but really depends on my PC's current state, is including them in some plot/event my PC is involved in currently, or welcoming them to an association (the app-less ones), which again depends on my PC's relationship with said faction/association.

I prefer not to bad-mouth any particular faction/association if I can avoid it. If I'm the welcoming committee for a new player, the last thing I want to do is color their options. What you tell them there at the beginning of the server can have lasting impact on their character (and maybe other characters!). EFU is about possibilities. If I close to them a possibility with my PC's opinion of that possibility, they might decide to not pursue that possibility simply because of the 'friend' mentality, which is very strong when they hardly know anyone else. Again, I try to avoid this, though sometimes its inevitable.

Anyways, why is there a problem with this third option? Because EFU is half-action/half-RP, more or less evenly. A new player should get a taste of both to understand this. The half-RP is the easy part. It's the half-action part that can be tricky, because like I said, the goal at this very early stage of a new player is not to show them how the fugue looks like (they'll get plenty of opportunity to discover this fascinating aspect), but rather to show them how dangerous things can be, and the lowbie quests with enemies are the best way, imo and ime (in my experience). Also, getting rewarded for the challenge is important, again something that finished lowbie quests can do fairly well, that half-finished mid-level quests don't do at all.  

Is there a solution to the level limits of lowbie quests?
The only thing I can think of is to somehow allow a player of higher level than the quest to accompany another appropriate-level character for a once-a-day kinda thing somehow. Details can be figured out by DMs of how this would work, and what limits would be imposed to prevent abuse, like no XP for higher level PC, allow certain DM-flagged characters can do this, etc...

Ignore those aspects of my post that have changed in the latest incarnation of EFU. I'm just speaking of my experience of playing in past years.