A Brief Player Guide to Improving the EFU PvP Experience

[Anonymous Lemur]

Edit: Giving THIS official topic a read would be pretty good too...

Introduction

I've been around since the earliest days of efu in 2005. Back then I was quite clueless and over the years I developed from an FD crazed maniac to a story focused pvp enthusiast. From an ic perspective when it comes to justified pvp anything goes. You are free to slay the necromancer for affronting your goodly faith. Yet just because something is within the rules and will be advantageous towards you does not mean it's ALWAYS the right choice.

None of what I write in this guide is based upon any incident in particular, nor is it intended as a jab at anyone's play-style.

Should I fight this person?

Deciding whether or not you should fight someone is a rather complicated matter. It's not always as simple as seeing someone vulnerable or someone you don't like and striking them down. Consider the following before you decide to attack someone:

• Are they wearing gear from the starter shop?
• An orange cloak?
• Do they appear to be wandering around aimlessly... perhaps in a manner that makes them seem lost? (New player?)
• Are they about to attack me?
• What level are you? If you're a level 8 fighter should you really be attacking this guy in starter equipment?

It is very important to consider how strong your opponent might be, because it's never fun to be crushed in a fight you can't win. Even if it's ic for your powerful character to snuff out this weakling. Consider that the player in question put a great deal of work into creating that character and maybe giving them a chance to escape your wrath this time may be warranted. This doesn't just go for brigands butlawmen as well. Give lower levels a chance to grow and they'll become far more satisfying and rewarding enemies to defeat later.

Winning

Regardless of the situation. When you win you should consider how hard won the fight really was. Did you outnumber your opponent? Was he even as strong as you? I know well the pain of having to replace that haste potion you were forced to down in a fight, but you should always consider your opponent before you go wild taking things from their bags. Even if it means you come out worse for it. Think of how brave or stupid that character was to take you on. If for example the player attacked with sinister intent, but hardly dented your stalwart crew, take a FEW items. Try to keep track of what other people have taken. Four people taking a "fair" reward each from a defeated foe is often quite crippling. Even if they should come back and strike at you again. If it is a feeble attack... consider being merciful. Though I would personally take more the second time than the first. Even in the event of a powerful foe try to find an excuse not to -completely- declaw them. Prolonged feuds make life in efu a lot more exciting.

When it comes to -killing- your opponent try to come up with excuses NOT to do so. Even if they are a disgusting goblin... try to find a reason not to kill the pc. It MAY require that the pc in question grovel at your feet or swear to perform some manner of task. It's always best to try your very hard to give someone an out. They may return one day and kill you for it, but they may also recognize your willingness to show ooc courtesy and act in kind. That isn't to say it's never appropriate to kill someone. If someone is being aggressive while prone and tossing around threats, has attacked you multiple times before or has demonstrated an eagerness to slay others without mercy then it is your prerogative to slay them.

It is always best to consider that on efu what goes around comes around and one day you will be at the mercy of the player of the pc you just killed who may or may not choose to spare you based upon how much ooc courtesy you have shown them in the past.

Always remember that just because you CAN kill someone without breaking the rules doesn't mean you should go out of your way to do so. That is not say you shouldn't hunt certain pc's with an aim to kill them. Particularly monsters. Though it's often nice to give less established monsters a chance to continue on until they become a proper menace. You'll be a lot less of a legend for killing "random goblin rogue" than "Greeblix High General of the Spitfire Legion, Scourge of the Watchers and Warders"

Losing

Damn. Subdued. Maybe soon to be dead. The most important thing to remember after you lose is to stay calm. If you feel as though your opponent has cheated in some way report it to a DM, but continue to roleplay and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Don't go quiet! It's never fun to get completely smashed, but often times the amount of roleplay you do from the ground will dictate how badly you are treated. Engage your attacker in dialog, but try not to allow the frustration of loss leak into your roleplay, because it becomes very obvious when this is the case. You should in many cases be ic'ly angry, but try to put yourself in your opponents shoes. If you make it more meaningful for them it will become more meaningful for you. Most importantly you should try to remember how the person treated you. If they were merciful it's always good to return the favor upon your eventual revenge.

Looting

When you loot someone consider how they have looted you in the past if at all. NEVER loot a LOT from X because Y in the same faction as X looted you too severely. Try to always consider what you would have taken from you if you were the one on the ground. What goes around always comes around on efu and if you demonstrate that you are willing to be reasonable about how much you loot from someone, you may find them more than willing to oblige you the same. Though you should never -expect- this kind of treatment, show it yourself and set a good example. Remember once again to take into account how easy it was to defeat this enemy before you start looting heavily and always try to leave them with enough that they can earn more in turn.

OOC

Avoid this at all costs. Unless you can be exceptionally polite to your opponent and it's to compliment them on the interaction. Just don't speak. Especially if you feel as though they were overly harsh. Give it time and speak to a DM if you feel as though they cheated somehow.

TL;DR

Try to imagine yourself playing the role of both attacker and defender. Try to imagine that this is an ideal world and treat the person you defeated or were defeated by the way you would like to be treated. Try not to hold onto grudges and consider how easy it might have been to "win" before you loot anything from somebodies pack. In efu what goes around comes around. So lets have positive vibes going all around.

All of this is only my opinion and is bound to be flawed from certain perspectives. This is by no means an all encompassing guide and I am by no definition a saint. I was asked to write this in irc so I thought I'd do my best to oblige those interested despite my often demonstrated inability to write eloquently.

[Tala]

When I saw mentions of this thread on IRC I thought people are asking for "how to be better in PVP mechanically", so it was a very nice surprise to see what's this thread is really about.

Well written and I agree with most of what's written. As mentioned, other things can be added but they are mostly a case-by-case situations and getting into all of them will take forever. Overall, very well done in my opinion. I'll add something that Jayde Moon wrote 2 years ago that I think is worth a read.

I'm also amused people used the LIKE mechanic on the forum.

[Pentaxius]

This is excellent advice and should be moved to the player compendium.

[HeKindlyStoppedForMe]

While "Going quiet" is not the way to go you should also keep in mind that as someone who has been bested to allow your opponent a chance to speak, monologue, explain his evil plan, or just have his fun as a bandit. It's a delicate balance between laying there like a wet noodle while someone is asking you questions but there's time and place when you should clam up. Try doing simple, few word emotes of your agony/etc instead of spouting responses.

- If you're in a big group of people having been bested by a more powerful figure it can be hard for one PC to keep up with all the subdued chatter. A lot of people tend to swear revenge or bust out the "We are going to kill you so bad" or have 50 people responding to "WHERE IS THE RELIC" or "WHICH ONE OF YOU IS IN COMMAND" or whatever etc. Sometimes you gotta just become a spectator not an actor. Sometimes it's cool to let the level 4 PC who is with you and just got his teeth kicked in try to lie to your captors even if you are holding the sacred cup of sharess and the bandit just wants to get crunk.

- Another thing to consider is if you're in a group of people who subdued 1-2 PCs, it's okay to shut up and defer to the boss or whoever had instigated the PvP and won or etc. Having been bested by a lot of good guys and mobs as a villain I can tell you there's nothing more gut wrenching than "Tag alongs" shit-talking you. If I'm playing a bandit and a watcher i've been feuding with has some adventurers down me with him, I'm fine interacting with the Watcher but it just sort of makes me want to RP my own suicide when other adventurers who I've never met just start spouting off about how my "USELESS LIFE OF CRIME IS AT AN END" or chatting up some batman style dialogue like we had been fighting for weeks.

Sometimes it's best the two rivals have their chatter, not shouting "WORLDSTAR" and "HA HA GOT U SUCKA U GONNA BURN" and other things that tend to crop up from mob mentality in the peanut gallery.

- I'd say the worst thing you can do in a group PvP is start spouting off threats.

There has been more than one time where one or two people in a group of subdued people get mad and just start swearing blood oaths of murder and death. While the "Appropriate" response as a villain is to just grin and bear it and do some mocking and ride away- Some villains are CE cyricist clerics who have burned churches just to light a cigarette. If you run your mouth off there's a chance you'll die.

As was pointed out in Lemur's post you should always try to find a way to avoid killing. Victims though you need to put yourself in the villain/antagonsits shoes. He just risked a lot to spread the story and stir some conflict. Sometimes though a villain is a villain and if you spit in a serial killer's face and swear to kill him because he took 150 gold and 2 haste potions you're just going to end up stabbed in the chest.

-

Most importantly keep things concise. PvP doesn't always happen in a safe environment for theatricality and if you're in the middle of the in between or crossroads where anyone can show up sometimes it's just gonna be quick

[Valo56]

To echo some the above:
Please, for the love of god, if you lose or something happened you did not like, do not rant to the other person in tells. Do not be passive aggressive. Do not accuse them of cheating. Just take it to the DM's. You are ultimately constrained to your own limited perspective of what is really going on, and being OOC'ly antagonistic to another player who may not deserve your ire is the worst thing you can do. Sadly, this happens very often in my experience and it just needs to end.

Also, don't go all quiet after you lose PvP. Frustrating as it may be, if someone is trying to talk to you after PvP, you shouldn't just do your best impression of being AFK. How you conduct yourself after PvP can and will make the difference between you dying or just being robbed, or even walking away with all your stuff still. I won't say what you should say, obviously threatening to skin alive the person who just beat you isn't good for your health, but please try to say something and at least pretend there are no hard feelings between you and the other player.

A big part of the reason I'm not very active on EfU is because of the PvP and people's reactions to it occurring, and their reactions to being subdued. I love PvP, despite being mediocre at best, but several members of the community have responded with utter vitriol and contempt upon losing (or even upon me successfully escaping a gank), to the point that I am struggling to bring myself to log in.

[rolaskatox]

A big part of the reason I'm not very active on EfU is because of the PvP and people's reactions to it occurring, and their reactions to being subdued. I love PvP, despite being mediocre at best, but several members of the community have responded with utter vitriol and contempt upon losing (or even upon me successfully escaping a gank), to the point that I am struggling to bring myself to log in.

Am I the only one who enjoys when people get mad for losing a pvp fight? I don't antagonize them or start OOC fights because I'm an adult playing a video game, I tend to just apologize or diffuse the situation or say nothing, but i never feel negatively when I receive OOC rage due to pvp.

[EventHorizon]

I think the key is that emotions subside quickly if we let them. Although I don't think it should be sought out or deliberately provoked, when a player expresses OOC anger upon something happening, I take that to mean the event was very important, and the anger is not really directed at any player but the circumstances. There are certain players whose characters my characters always seem to butt heads with, and whose dialogue IC gets very nasty; I get totally into it, and allow myself to feel the anger and emotions of the roleplayed moment, but I try to maintain a rational, OOC observer's mind on those moments, and afterwards, I reflect positively on those moments precisely because they were so emotional, and I secretly thank the players who made that possible.

[Paha]

This is a game. There will be winning and there will be losing. Each and every one of you invests time into their characters, and eventually it will come to an end, in a way you want, or not. It is important to remember that even an abrupt end can be a solid ending to a good journey. Sometimes ending crowns the moment, and sometimes it feels like it doesn't - but hey, maybe monsters or evil people are supposed to die brutally and be cut short at times. Peasants and beginning adventurers die horribly, sometimes. It does not necessarily make the journey any less worthy. Learn from it. Take a step back and disclose what you enjoyed, rather than how it ended.

I can say that most of the time when there are bitter feelings, truly, nothing really serious happened to call out anyone for abusing situation, being lame, or unfair. There will always be disagreements of how something should've gone. That is natural. You are on opposing sides of the scenario.

If you get so upset and angry, you should step back for a while until you can grasp the game more lightly. It should never have that kind of hold on any of us. In this the whole team stands together, and it has been said many times, and will be said many times in future.

Now, when it comes to pvp and posts above. We do not all have same feelings. That is fine. But there is a certain spirit we seek in efu from all players, and it has never changed. Basic manners and behavior is one of them.

1. If you feel upset, do not take it on anyone. Their person is not the target here, and it should not spread further. If you have issue with something, you come to the DM's or talk politely after the matter has been handled.
2. Stick to the character. Take a breath, and try to shed personal frustration from your playing. It has no place in this sort of environment. You can play seriously without letting the game become too serious for you.

If you are the bigger man and give people chances with subdue and otherwise, acknowledge that you may not get same courtesy. That is not an entitlement for any of that either. Really big men and women are separated here, when they can accept this fact and not let it weight you down endlessly after you may face an unfortunate end. The only way people learn different ways, if others are able to stick their ways and lead. In some case that kind leniency is not even warranted from the other side, even if you offer it.

Aim to create stories and aim to have fun. Sometimes it becomes more competitive, and that is fine. Then on other time, try a different approach and test different methods. Honestly, in the span of these 11 years there has not been so serious cases that it should drive anyone away. Of course, not everyone is fit for this level of play. That is fine too.

Everyone here knows when they let real life behavior bleed too much into their characters, and know when they aim to antagonize the other in player level, rather than as a character. You know what you are doing, and you have a choice to be better. So learn to be. Those that have stuck to it, have considered efu fitting for them. Nobody has to like everything. There is options and ways for everyone to play differently. Some ways are easier or more straightforward than others, but often challenge and rare success is what rewards you with memories that lost. You won't remember the bitter moments forever. I can tell you, if you just decide to quit and stop doing things because you face adversity - I got news for you. You can't escape it in life. How you deal with it is up to you. No rules we make for efu will change it, and that change has to come from everyone individually. We can enforce rules and guide people, but that's it.

[Deadlykate]

Giving this a bump, seems like it's sorely needed.