Rework / buff wildshape

[Pandip]

Wildshape needs some help. There are two issues.

1. There has been no compensation for the loss of mage armor. I realize this was taken out because of a pretty egregious exploit (though one that had been a mostly understood part of the server between DM's and players for years), but almost every form other than panther is absolutely yearning for some love in the AC department. Shield potions can't be used in conjunction with wildshape. This makes a druid's average and peak AC outside of panther form significantly lower than what most other classes can achieve with gear and buffs. It's not like they lost the occasional convenience of shield potions from this nerf, which are rare to find and can't be cast from an arcanist; they lost an easily accessible potiong, an easily cast level 1 spell that almost every arcane magic user has memorized, and a consistent +4 buff to AC that is just... gone, and not replaced with anything. Compound that with the standard issues of flame weapon / darkfire and magic weapon being especially buggy with wildshape and the whole wildshape situation seems to be in an unfortunate spot.

2. Wildshapes are not consistently balanced against one another, nor is there an especially interesting variety to them. For years, the best wildshapes for combat have been spider and panther for their utility benefits, with wolf and occasionally bear or lizard being suitable flavor alternatives. This hasn't changed with the introduction of Underdark-specific shapes, which are all significantly weaker than their surface equivalents. I don't necessarily expect every wildshape to be a combat crushing, class-mimicking badass, but it's unfortunate that the Underdark shapes are so much weaker than the alternatives.

And, as an off note, with the advent of haks and new tilesets and more cluttered (and cooler looking!) areas, a lot of the app-only wildshape forms with larger sizes have severe issues moving around on the server. I know pre-haks, Chaathi's fat lizard butt had incredible issues moving through areas. I don't know if there's a way to lower the collision on wildshapes like this, but it sort of sucks to earn something so significant and only be able to use it infrequently in specific areas. You have to swap out of wildshape, move through a choke point your body can't fit through, and reenter wildshape, which is a sore situation to be in. Is it possible to give druids unlimited uses of wildshape per day at higher levels, but earlier than they would normally get them in standard NWN? I don't know if this is even desirable. It probably isn't.
 

[athousandyearsofpain]

Second. This is, potentially, very crippling since it limits the druids from being on the direct frontline, no matter what shape they pick. (Not counting the app shapes which I know little to nothing about.)

(Disagree with unlimited shapes though.)

[Pandip]

I leave number 1 for others to address, but would be interested in examples of the movement difficulties.

Stone lizard is perhaps the best non-app example of this, but great lizard and cave bear have always been notorious for struggling to move around properly. I can't speak to recent struggles with the new hak tilesets (I can't imagine it's gotten better with them), but on Chaathi it was almost impossible to properly navigate the dark lake, the shroomstalk, further reaches, and any place with narrow corridors. The larger shapes generally feel like they're walking through the Barbican at all times.

[Talir]

I do not understand why it is thought the removal of an exploit should be compensated. Makes zero sense. You guys should report and not use any exploits you encounter at all.

As for almost every form lacking when it comes to AC, I count at least twelve with same or higher. That is twelve of thirty-four different wildshapes. Seems like a good number for variety.

It is certainly true that the wildshapes reintroduced in this chapter could use a look to compare it to the rest. Some of them were too good, which was fixed quickly. The rest could use an overhaul.

There is nothing buggy about flame weapon/darkfire and magic weapon for wildshapes. It just applies to one of the claws. Some wildshapes have up to three different creature weapons of varying strength. Making the spells apply to all three of them could be an option.

In the end what it comes down to is an interested DM taking time to go through everything. The last time this happened was probably nearly two years ago when I ran a rot plot and added a few new wildshapes. In addition to that I did an overhaul of the wildshape selection screen and brought back old underdark wildshapes, as well as ensured none of them were brokenly good (which some were!). Otherwise I do not think you would even have what you have today. It is a thankless effort and a chore, most of us probably would pass it on.

This is the suggestion forum. What this thread suggests is a boatload of effort on someone on the team's shoulder for practically zero effort made to contribute towards a solution to the issues argued. I do not think anyone of us is overjoyed of the prospect.

Magic armor applying to character hide is not coming back. The exploit here is absurd. In another exploit it has been said people used to first apply magic armor on their armor before wildshaping, then applying magic armor again for even more AC. Expect no sympathy here from me as I fixed both of these exploits. Magic armor on EFU is meant to make the worn armor equivalent to the strength of a chain shirt, not boost your AC by 4.

Changing the strength of the wildshapes is something one on the team has to do whenever they take the time. It is not something you guys can necessarily help with.

When it comes to additions for variety, this is something which should have been added to the first post to begin with to make it a good suggestion. However we keep the statistics for the creatures deliberately hidden, so a better place to put these suggestions is in the private forum. If this is something that you want to contribute with, here is a brief form which can help make it easier:

Name:
Appearance:
Claws/Bite: 1d4, 1d6 etc. Up to three, can be one.
Hide: what item properties the creature has. Usually what differentiates it from the other wildshapes. Bonus to hide, faster movement speed, feats etc.

STR: new base strength
CON: new base constitution
DEX: new base dexterity
N AC: natural AC bonus (will count as dodge bonus)
T HP: temporary hit points on shifting

Special abilities: monster abilities or spells you think fit the creature. Another way of differentiation.

Example

Name: Spinespitter
Appearance: Basilisk
Claws/Bite: 1d6
Hide: Empty

STR: 16
CON: 14
DEX: 14
N AC: 5
T HP: 20

Special Abilities:
Manticore Spikes

If you guys contribute instead of just suggesting all the work for us, it makes it easier to see things happen.

[athousandyearsofpain]

I think the main issue is that you can't use Mage Armor at all and gain benefit from it in wild shape.
I could be wrong but it looks like, when you look over the different shapes, even the ones that are "tank" shapes-
Their AC seem to have been balanced taking into account that you will use mage armor to get "good/decent" AC.
As it stands your AC will always be terrible. Perhaps not for the level 2-5 2-7 quests, if you pick the things that has OK ac.
But even their ac will be nothing while doing higher level things due to their base being so low, and your inability to raise it with mage armor.
 

[Anonymous Lemur]

It definitely wouldn't be overpowered if you simply added 4 ac to the natural base of every single wildshape. They'd be slightly below par ac wise with the exception of certain app only shapes. So that's really the only thing I can suggest.