Retcon Upper Checkpoints

[Anonymous Lemur]

Remove the check points and replace them with a sigil on the ground that scans for enthrallment as a person steps on it and teleports a thrall into a cage if discovered, but otherwise does not obstruct passage in or out of upper sanctuary. Upper sanctuary is far too secure. There are no real ic reasons for this one, but I find one hundred percent safe to be one hundred percent boring. PC watchers could still man a check point of sorts, but it wouldn't be as full-proof as the current set up.

[We Are Men]

Having the checkpoints be constructed out of destructible spiked barricades would be better than the "indestructable rubble walls" we have now, IMO. They could be destroyed and potentially replaced/enforced with more barricades if WaW PCs feel like doing so.

[Everknight]

There should be some kind of wall with the illusion gone, and the current gate is destructible fairly sure. I busted out myself on a character not long ago.

[Pentaxius]

These gates may look impressive, but with a DM online its fairly simple to break through. Of course chaos will ensue...

However, I do feel that there should be some secret passages that lead inside Sanctuary. And if it could be randomized it would be even better.

 

[Luke Danger]

Secret passages would probably be the best - I remember in the original EfU there were some into the machine; used them when we were in Reynold's rebels to let our gnomish wizard buy some potions supplies and such... and once got assassinated through them in a Scooby Doo chase. But I do like the immersion, it feels like Sanctuary is duely paranoid about the Dreads.
   
  That said, maybe something could be done about the dialogue since as it is it massively clogs up the chatboxes, especially since after a certain point it should be "Yep, check." [get checked] "Okay go in."

[Pandip]

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but why? Ultimately, the gripe is "I want it to be easier to attack Sanctuary" and I suppose I don't understand the issue. You need a DM no matter what to oversee the PvP, so that certainly isn't the problem. The Shield "era" of Sanctuary made it laughably easy to attack a bunch of people in the square (sometimes even FD someone abruptly) and then walk away from the situation. It was even easier if you were inside an area that didn't require your ring and you could just take it off before walking out to confuse everyone.

If the last week or so is indicative of anything, the amount of PvP inside Sanctuary certainly hasn't decreased -- in fact, it's probably increased of late. As long as you state your intent to a DM ahead of time, retreating from the gate doesn't seem like an especially difficult task all things considered. And while I can't say I have any personal experience in this area, I can't imagine it'd be especially difficult with the handful of daily active DM's we have to simply be like, "Hey, I wanna assault Sanctuary's gates tomorrow around xyz, can you oversee?" If you want secret passages, pursue that IG with a PC that has a history/story that revolves around striking at Sanctuary and regularly butting heads with the WaW rather than some nameless level 8 who has done nothing of import but stomp his way through quests before trying to beat on people in the square.

EDIT: to clarify, that last portion isn't directed at anyone in particular or in reference to any specific event, particularly not one that has happened recently from my perspective.

[prestonhunt]

To answer your question of "why", the answer is quite simply because it is far too easy to hide in Sanctuary while your enemies are ig.

[zDark Shadowz]

To answer your question of "why", the answer is quite simply because it is far too easy to hide in Sanctuary while your enemies are ig.

Is it possible to conceal the player list when online? Might make the server appear quite lonely but then you wouldn't have OOC knowledge of your enemies being online or even know if your targets are online either.

[UrkoNeedsAStiffDrink]

Is it possible to conceal the player list when online? Might make the server appear quite lonely but then you wouldn't have OOC knowledge of your enemies being online or even know if your targets are online either.

Could hide players in the POC. One thing I noticed from my short time playing with the Shattered Shore is the amount of players who OOCly dodge/avoid logging in at times when we were online. I know its only a lite-form of metagaming, but still one worth noting.

Would the removal of the player list in game be possible with haks?

[Deadlykate]

I have to agree the checkpoints have stopped the great assassinations and bombings compared to when the Shield was up. I say get rid of them or lighten security up, let villains have their day of terror upon Sanctuary for no where is safe from their grasp!

[Luke Danger]

I have to agree the checkpoints have stopped the great assassinations and bombings compared to when the Shield was up. I say get rid of them or lighten security up, let villains have their day of terror upon Sanctuary for no where is safe from their grasp!

  Ultimately the problem will be to do it IC. A bombing happens, then everyone will advocate for said security to return. It's a pain in the ass, but if there's a genuine ready threat people would probably put up with it. Now the thrall thing can easily be done with an area ward or something like that, sort of like what New Dunwarren used to have way back in original EfU against Evil and Chaotic. Then lower the gates since the checkpoints aren't needed - maybe leave the chokepoints, but it's not constantly barred except during lockdowns. So it can still lock down, but day-to-day it's 'open'.
   

[Abandoned-1]

I would rather see dangerous refugee camps start popping up just outside the main gates. A tent city in response to the heightened security.

[Tala]

They let ANYONE (except for thralls) in. How is that "too secured"? There is no heightened security, as instead of Watchers on the street, there are just emergency panels.

There haven't been too many bombings or assassinations this chapter (maybe one or two?), and even so, they all required a DM to oversee anyway. I don't think any players approached us for bombings and assassinations whatsoever.

And like before when the Shield was up, a wanted criminal needs to have a DM to oversee when they enter Lower, same as when a Spellguard Agent or a known Watcher or Warder try to enter Lower.

I don't see it too secured, unless I'm missing what Naga was addressing.

[Anonymous Lemur]

They let ANYONE (except for thralls) in. How is that "too secured"? There is no heightened security, as instead of Watchers on the street, there are just emergency panels.

There haven't been too many bombings or assassinations this chapter (maybe one or two?), and even so, they all required a DM to oversee anyway. I don't think any players approached us for bombings and assassinations whatsoever.

And like before when the Shield was up, a wanted criminal needs to have a DM to oversee when they enter Lower, same as when a Spellguard Agent or a known Watcher or Warder try to enter Lower.

I don't see it too secured, unless I'm missing what Naga was addressing.

Before the gate it felt "possible" to escape from the major hub after killing somebody as every single major hub had multiple escape routes. Upper has 2 (3 if you count the vault) and all of them are just a right click lock away from requiring you to bash them down. Where as in EFU classic there was no gate at all in upper, efu:A there was one gate but you could escape via the ruins to the docks, efu:M you could cross the bridge, go around the outside towards the back or into the old stones.

In efu:R it would be perfectly ic'ly reasonable for the guards to IMMEDIATELY lock the gates if any crime were to occur. Which makes it extremely unlikely that anybody will even attempt to attack anybody up there. Thats why there hasn't been too many bombings or assassinations this chapter, it's an extremely unattractive prospect from an ooc perspective as the chances of success hinge on how many hits the dm overseeing feels the gate would take to open, or what the dc would be to jump over it, or whether the npc's would be incompetent and not lock the door. All of these things are very ambiguous and one DM might think differently from another meaning different results based on who's overseeing which can mislead people to think "Oh the guards lock the doors for X character, but let the assassin of Y get away guess they didn't like X as much as Y."

Which is why I feel the best solution would be to remove the gate or at least make all of the objects around the gate destructible and add multiple secret routes in and out of upper sanctuary.

[SHSLDetective]

Before the gate it felt "possible" to escape from the major hub after killing somebody as every single major hub had multiple escape routes. Upper has 2 (3 if you count the vault) and all of them are just a right click lock away from requiring you to bash them down. Where as in EFU classic there was no gate at all in upper, efu:A there was one gate but you could escape via the ruins to the docks, efu:M you could cross the bridge, go around the outside towards the back or into the old stones.

In efu:R it would be perfectly ic'ly reasonable for the guards to IMMEDIATELY lock the gates if any crime were to occur. Which makes it extremely unlikely that anybody will even attempt to attack anybody up there. Thats why there hasn't been too many bombings or assassinations this chapter, it's an extremely unattractive prospect from an ooc perspective as the chances of success hinge on how many hits the dm overseeing feels the gate would take to open, or what the dc would be to jump over it, or whether the npc's would be incompetent and not lock the door. All of these things are very ambiguous and one DM might think differently from another meaning different results based on who's overseeing which can mislead people to think "Oh the guards lock the doors for X character, but let the assassin of Y get away guess they didn't like X as much as Y."

Which is why I feel the best solution would be to remove the gate or at least make all of the objects around the gate destructible and add multiple secret routes in and out of upper sanctuary.

I don't really disagree with you but I think it should be said that these gates were a relatively new addition this chapter and for at least two years we had a completely penetrable shield which literally had an escape point at every location. There still weren't very many attacks/assassinations.