Making Including people more worthwile

[Cruzel]

Well, as you all know, I am/was probably one of the biggest powerquesters here >.>, I even had my own powerquesting clique back in the underdark. Back then we were all rich, covered in supplies, and all almost level 9.

Recently, I've cast aside that clique, and began to try to include as many people as possible in whatever I am doing. But this is not meant to be an insult, but let's face it. A lot of people on EFU suck at questing, be it new players or just not very good at NWN at all.  Including these people makes you burn through supplies like nothing else to keep them alive, making bringing them along a HUGE hindrance in the overall scheme of things, as you run out of supplies for the higher end quests, then die, and are forced to repeat the lower end quests to gain more supplies.

Meanwhile those who ignore and don't invite these less skilled players on quests (Not that it always happens, but I see if often enough), get totally looted out, high level, and dominate.

I have even seen some people with the attitude "Let's take only three people because it's more loot, They can't come" Sometimes that IC, but that should never be how it is imo.

  I can definately say my playing experience has been better since I've stopping being an elitist prick, but it's also become like a hundred times harder to compete with those who still have their own optimised questing posses, which is kind of discouraging.  

It is without a doubt nearly impossible to stay well supplied if you grab every random joe you see and invite them on your quest or w/e you are doing, only to burn through way more supplies than the reward to keep them alive, maybe even dying yourself.  This is a great way to help out newer/less experienced players become better at questing, but from an IC standpoint most PCs would not burn through so much shit to keep these people alive for such negligable rewards.


I am suggesting a revamp of the loot system so that  full parties get MUCH more loot than a totally optimized, 3 man team, or something to balance this out. I would say a massive increase is in order, tbh.

[Letsplayforfun]

This suggestion has the merit of being very pragmatic. As much i rp should be the only reason to take such and such person along, experience shows it's not always the case.

The question is: should DM take some of their (precious) time to compensate poor player attitude?

[Cruzel]

People want to succeed, and people want loot. Questing with people who suck and succeeding + having loot do not add up to each other, as it is.

The only way to change this attitude is to make success + loot = including players.

[Kilaya76]

I have more gold and consumables than I did back in the Underdark, even tough I spend far more gold in healing because my char doesn't have healing skill, so I have to rely on minor healing potions instead of the much cheaper med herbs.
 
About the newbie pcs: you aren't forced to help them. If they are aware of the risks, it will be their responsability if they die.

[Talir]

You forget, Cruzel, that 'including players' is a constant and always positive, so no matter what you put on the left side of the equals symbol, it will still be positive (benefit).

Instead of complaining that their presence drains your resources, try to deal with it IG. If it's a warrior that constantly charges enemies and putting your group in danger, let the warrior know about it and the certainity that should he continue to do so, you will either have the group abandon him or force him to leave. Propose various means to improve the combat quality of the group and guide the character if necessary. Notice I say character and not player. There are so many numerous benefits of getting to know other characters through questing that it is the only thing I really miss when I play a high level character who rarely quest.

I don't care much for a high level dude with awesome gear who's got it through optimized questing. Vastly more interesting to me is the character who may struggle through quests yet play a terrific person, even if he/she can't stand up to the other guy on mechanical terms.

Having written all this, I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion of placing a more noticeable reward for the groups that include as many players as possible. Questing is an amazing opportunity to get to know other characters while experiencing a challenge you must work to overcome together, and while it is a reward in itself, I would like others to have the incentive to bring along everyone should it fit the character. I would have thought this to already be the case, more reward for more people?

[Semli]

I created a very similar thread awhile back.  To sum up my stance on the matter, I will just say that I agree.

http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20149

[MisterPAIN]

Well in my EfU:A "faction healer" days instead of trying to keep everyone alive it was just anyone important to my character at the moment.  That said it was a pretty harsh on myself if THE (non-in-my-faction) LAMERS DIDN'T HAVE ANY HEALING AND QUEST ON DIFFICULT CRAP LEADING TO A RIDICULOUS COST, and this policy pretty much counters that practice.  I was using every kind of bard pipes to the max, selling potions to get healing wands.  That said, the rewards for actual questing were sometimes so poor I simply thought myself to get pretty much nothing and am only buying my fellows some experience without dying.  To the point of even screwing around in the wilds since it was the same thing anyway.  I bullrushed a Shambling Mound and tanked it in front of my faction parteh group for shits and giggles "for research" without even a shield.

So yeah, a group of mechanically impaired gnome/hins (and I have to say I don't think to many of us are mechanically supreme in any way!) in leather armor can rock out just fine questing and can be supplied just as well.

THIS IS NOT EF-Me: Archipelago.  You get more experience in a bigger group, but the rewards are going to be less.  You can still succeed, you just need to stop being individual hair-splitting loot retards.

[Tracker]

I've got to agree that there are quests where a full party can be beneficial, and ones where the increased spawns or other factors make it more dangerous. Wild Orcs for example, increased party size increases the chance someone will draw forward and either die stupidly or drag others with them. On the other hand, the 2-5 Wolves quest is about blocking the enemies and protecting your charges, so you want those numbers to body block the horde.

I would suggest a simple way to balance this for some quests is to make gold rewards scale MASSIVELY with party size, so a team of 8 will be getting several times the amount an optimised 3 man team will pull. The loot goes more ways, but the gold makes up for it.

[ScottyB]

I'd like to see the end-quest XP reward improve exponentially for having a larger party, and I'd like loot chests to do the same for how many items they spawn.

The most important thing to remember: this is a game; you play games to have fun with people. If someone has managed to get a huge party together then that should be worth a ton of rewards, not out of a sense of balance, but just so those players can continue to have fun and be willing to include people.

[Mort]

Back in the days, I usually quested with people I liked playing with/roleplaying or that I found interesting. Not the super hawt min-max dude that wont make me lose 1 ounce of supplies, but rather anybody who is interesting in their roleplay. Hoarding stuff is just not that entertaining to me.

That being said, I dont see any problems with people going in quest with smaller/more efficient characters so they can be well equipped in order to prepare themselves for bigger group quests or whatever-

Similarly with wages, they are there sort-of to help the PCs interact/involve others by hiring them, etc. and help with supplies so you can roleplay, involve others more freely.

[Random_White_Guy]

I'd much rather quest than 4 people I know and love to play with, than 50 random PC's i've gathered up for awesome end quest reward.

Involving other players is its own reward, and something that I prefer to do through RP/Interaction, not taking more people on questing.

Questing distracts from RP, and is often reduced to the fun but efficient use of tactics.

One does not simply talk philosophy and plan jobs while in combat. That is how most people are involved.

[XExileX]

Things to add... Better quest reward.

Better xp and gold should be given to parties.
Make more quests have a pay. We are all super poor compared to EFU in underdark.

[tooh]

what stick players at servers ?
Fun and  cooperation and mystery and stage.
Get more xp and better loot, are rewards to incentive all players and make friendship.
Most of characters dont pass webwoods or bog, must be in group to risk, and to make groups need trust, need join.

[Winston Martin]

Its def cool to teach newer people basic nwn staying alive skills.

Basically how your old team used to roll.

[Underbard]

I am suggesting a revamp of the loot system so that  full parties get MUCH more loot than a totally optimized, 3 man team, or something to balance this out. I would say a massive increase is in order, tbh.

  I agree with this.  For example, I have a L4 PC who keeps to himself most of the time, and is extremely picky who he works with. This PC has plenty of gear and comsumables to be ready for most anything.
  I also have a L5 PC who is not picky at all but often has to turn down questing opportunities because of the lack of consumables and coin to purchase healing with.  She is actually trying to find steady work just to support going out exploring with her friends.
  It makes it almost seem like two different servers at times.