Magister's Guild revamp - looking for opinions.

[Random_White_Guy]

Archetypes for guild members, not Sub-Sections.

[Aldrick Tanith]

As a side note, I should point out that when I created Aldrick I had no real intention of creating the Magister's Guild.  Aldrick's intentions were to covertly take over the Mage's Guild from within and control it vicariously through its leaders.  He never wanted a public face.

However, IC events and actions of others forced him into the role, and when he saw the opportunity put before him he claimed it.  Thus, the Magister's Guild was born.

The original Magister's Guild was just to be a collection of wizards.  A fraternity like the old Mage's Guild.  However, after Aldrick joined the Society and he began to learn things... the Magister's Guild began to take on a purpose.  Internally, there have been several shifts in philosophy and stuff like that.  It's had an identity crisis since day one.

It suffered ICly (and OOCly too for some people) as being viewed as a sub-group within the Society rather than its own separate entity.  This indirectly led to events involving the collapse of the Society. (Although, really, those events were outside of Aldrick's control.  It would have taken place with or without him.)  

With the Society gone, and the government all but inactive as the DM's rework it... it left the Magister's Guild on a limb.  It's two biggest faction supporters were gone, it was forced to rely upon itself, and it could not sustain itself... thus it slowly faded.

This is an attempt to revamp the faction to be more independent.  If it were to remain a single class faction, especially a class that requires other classes to be successful, it would be forever crippled and dependent upon others, never having the ability to rise on its own.  In essence, the guild has been a coat tail faction, riding on the coat tails of the government and then on the Society.

[lovethesuit]

*  The Archaeologist should make sense for this guild, and be the primary place such PrC's would want to join.

Used to be another place for that, too! Wonder what happened to it...

[MisterPAIN]

Ouch.  Not even in the faction and I feel that sting.  Speaking as a born-again wizard player who is really liking what he sees in Aldrick's attempt here (for the most part), let me throw in where I have no business:

1. The power of a wizard faction is not necessarily in the charisma of its leader.  Honestly, my wizard never met Aldrick IG, I just heard the bile spilt across the forums.  BUT, a guild is not ABOUT charisma, it's about purpose.  The failed factions have often failed because they were based on the leadership of a single PLAYER.  I say player here because there are often many characters who IC are perfect for leadership but whose players don't have the time to devote IG to it.  Any faction centered around some core ideals or "rules" would have a much better time surviving the untimely death of a leader type.  I think that's a secret to the success of DM factions - the constance of the DM presence gives them that quality that allows them to endure the death of a leader.  PC factions will be doomed to short life if they continue to rely on a single player's character.  Side note: any examples of someone whose main faction leader PC died and then they made a different character and rejoined the faction to rise to its leadership to keep it going?
2. As to being a coward, I'm not sure what went down there either - challenges to duels maybe?  I wouldn't accept one either as a wizard most likely.  You're too easy to "take out".  No, the power of the guild is in NOT stooping to such levels, it's about bringing the full fury of the membership down on those who would oppose it (speak softly but carry a big stick - as a group).  
3. Cannot comment on the "intellectuals and society dislikes" Not enough info to even conjecture.
4. See my above post for more on government.  To hell with government influence and politics.  If the guild gets established, the influence will be there because the mages will act as a block.  Hell hath no fury like half a dozen mages fireballing you at once while their earth elementals run interference for them and a few walls of fire separate you from them too!
5. As to lack of incentives, here are a few:
Networking of spells and scrolls to flesh out spellbooks, sharing of magic items among those who need them (oh, you're a newbie member?  Here, take these 10 wands of sleep and acid splash - I've got no use for them anymore!), loaning of "uberitems" to those in need, price and inventory controls on potions and wands, sharing of information for things like alchemy and herbalism, mutual defense, cool RP opportunities, wiz vs. wiz PvP against rogue types (for those that like thta sort of thing), political power as a member of "the" wizard group, increased wealth (if my idea on charging an extra "fee" to quest and buff is taken into account, getting to learn and explore cool secrets of the isle, etc.  Sounds like quite a bit off the top of my head!  

It sounds like the original magister guild is for all intents, dead, though.  A serious revamp is in order and Aldrick has put a lot into it.  Give him some credit for trying to do something cool and different.  He's said himself he doesn't want to make it look like sunshine spellguard.  New things sometimes take some tweaking to get right, like a character build :)

1. A leader still must still appoint the said purposes, and spin everything happening neat into what translates as motivation for the group.  A leader must also be able to get the group to do something cool without relying on DM power.  And in order for a leader to lead he must be present, a leader that doesn't actively lead (in both IG and forums) is not regardless of charisma.  I think it is quite possible to lead with the forums, and would have done so when I took a break had I not had our somewhat OOC ethic of being happening IG all the time.  They also have to have an image that appeals to the masses, no one is going to join if everyone hates you and what you do.

2.  Gaeseric the Unyielding pretty much announced Aldrick Tanith's cowardice to the public, can't really help you there when he kind of had 8 Colonial Guards potion-buffing thems with stoneskin, blur, and whatnot on himself when he arrested an old woman in front of a certain halfling with a stick for a weapon. >_>

3.  See above.

4. A bunch of wizards looking for a fight seems like a piggybank waiting to be broken by a bunch of random anything that can melee and knockdown.

5.  That stuff usually happens regardless of a actual faction, my own character Cania Melve would have never gotten so many spells and became a bit of a guru (even to Spellguard Agents) without this fact in action.  In fact I'd say Jawl Highland would be the less grim (obviously not having the baggage of living in lower for years) post-EFU-apocalyptic version of her and they are remarkably similar save for differences in bravery, style of play, stealth, and bowmanship.  Just replace affections for Stargazers with affections for elves.

[MisterPAIN]

Used to be another place for that, too! Wonder what happened to it...

Yeeeaaaaaah...

[MisterPAIN]

This is an attempt to revamp the faction to be more independent.  If it were to remain a single class faction, especially a class that requires other classes to be successful, it would be forever crippled and dependent upon others, never having the ability to rise on its own.  In essence, the guild has been a coat tail faction, riding on the coat tails of the government and then on the Society.

As you know, there was a early similar attempt with a side character of mine.  I might shelf "El Badgerio" should you wish this character to actually do some stuff that the DMs might just go for.  I'm not going to be very active, but this is no worry as I will certainly be active in the forums and am willing to attempt to get the DMs on board which I might have a pretty cool idea for.  Only my character can kind of do this though, my awesome CHA wizard.  PM if you are interested, I will give you the details, AT.

[domare]

I still think the Magister’s Guild is an awesome idea and player faction.  Obviously, it could use a bit of tweaking, but keep in mind just about every faction (except maybe the Armada) is struggling with PC attendance.  With the collapse of the government and the volatility of the colony, it might be wise for the Magister’s Guild to completely break off from the city’s politics and logistical support.  Perhaps occupying a cave, abandoned tower, or hideout somewhere might be more conducive for a having a stable environment to achieve their main goal…researching and understanding the hidden secrets of the island.

The main objective/purpose of the guild should be broadly to research and gain understanding of the hidden secrets of the island.  Because only highly educated and committed individuals are capable of researching this very dangerous historic lore without jeopardizing everyone around.  By doing this…it will give a bit of flexibility to the PC’s.  Good PC’s might use their understanding of the secrets to help others, evil PC’s will use it to better themselves or right past wrongs.  For any player faction to be successful…it needs a few active characters to keep plots moving.  

Finally, I would think that for any player faction to be fun and exciting…then it needs profound adversaries.  These adversaries would come from a dynamic player base.

Again…Aldrick, I think you did an awesome job with this faction.

[Aldrick Tanith]

I'm sensing some bitterness over the collapse of the Society due to IC events. >_>

Just know, ending the Society wasn't my idea, and if I had the power I would have kept it around.  Aldrick did numerous things as Grand Magister to protect the Society (like keeping Ortred in the dark about Tyrell being an escaped slave).  If Aldrick would have had it his way, the Society would have remained alive and active, but it wasn't my decision OOC or IC.

"Yet from the start, I decided it would be a faction with a limited lifespan. It's important to me that such plots end with a bang, while leaving room to continue the plot in a different vein for the future. As the Society faction was extraordinarily time-consuming to maintain, I was afraid that in my absence it would quickly fall downhill and no longer be the faction we know today. As I will be taking the next five months off for school, now was an opportune time to end." -  Sternhund

So yeah, I didn't come at you guys with OOC maliciousness or anything.  You do not know what happened ICly, and it'd be too spoilerish for me to go into all the details, but suffice it to say Aldrick really had little choice in the matter.

---

As to the other points.

1.  Aldrick is indeed cowardly.  He avoids violent conflict when he can.  That is not a mistake or a lack of charisma.  He's just not stupid.  He's going to duel Gaeseric to the death?  Yeah, right.  He's seen him in battle several times.  That is not how Aldrick solves conflicts, I do not think that makes him a bad leader - it makes him a leader that outlives risk takers like Ortred. :p

2.  Aldrick has just over nine days total logged IG since character creation, 251 hours total, that is almost 3 hours logged IG each day.  I do a lot of forum stuff, it's true, but Aldrick is involved in other active factions and has a lot of management.  If you count the hours I spent on forum plus the time I spent IG that could easy come out to 5 hours per day since character creation.  That is an insane amount of time.  You may not have seen me much after the Society collapsed, but that was because the Magister's Guild also lost several of its members making it a largely inactive faction.  On top of that the goverment completely shut down without Ortred.  The other factions I was involved in did not require my presence IG constantly like the guild did.  Thus, I began to better manage my time, logging in only when requested or needed.  I still have a life outside of EfU.

The other points are mostly FIOG.

---

So, yeah.  I'd like to get back to the original intention of the thread. >_>

[Sternhund]

I'd like to augment Aldrick's first point. The Society ended on my prerogative for many reasons. Among them was the importance, to me, that plots end on a high note, rather than simmer down until we decide to end them. There were lots of other OOC reasons, but whatever the case, the faction would have ended. Yet I'm glad to see the Society has left a legacy.

Meldread puts a lot of heart into his work and always seeks to raise a standard. If you're interested in a player faction, augmenting this one would be worthy of your consideration.

Best of luck.

[lovethesuit]

Bitterness? Nobody blames you for the Society ending. I am teasing you because right after the group of Archaeologists disappear, the Archaeologist PrC pops up. I thought the time was hilarious. Don't be so sensitive or I'll give you an indian rope burn. I have a racial proficiency.

[XExileX]

One thing that should be done: There needs to be a new name. If it is just a magister guild then it would only have magisters. IF it were named something else, it would involve other places in it.

[XExileX]

The Brotherhood of Magic?

[MisterPAIN]

I'm sensing some bitterness over the collapse of the Society due to IC events. >_>

Just know, ending the Society wasn't my idea, and if I had the power I would have kept it around.  Aldrick did numerous things as Grand Magister to protect the Society (like keeping Ortred in the dark about Tyrell being an escaped slave).  If Aldrick would have had it his way, the Society would have remained alive and active, but it wasn't my decision OOC or IC.

Technically, he could have at least put forth an effort to appeal to the Society Members post-ownage or at least having an alternate way of destroying the Society without completely alienating the ex-members.   I'd think a PC would be be bitter that the government owned his own ambitions, maybe?

[Junketeer]

The Librarians

[XExileX]

There is a imaginary society with many movies of guys called the Librarians.