The End of EFU:M and the Start of EFU:R Feedback

[johanmaxon]

I liked it. First night after going into the Underdark, I dreamt I was an elf in a hideout, urging a human child not to go out into the dark. He did, I heard terrible screaming, and he returned dead/abberationed. Good stuff.

[caek]

Being able to constantly reinvent and keep a 10+ year old game both exciting and visually beautiful is something akin to witchcraft I tell you! I'd be interested to know how long this next idea has been planned for, too.

Had a wander round yesterday, the "Fallout" vibe of the prologue and the return to the Underdark setting I love greatly.

Super stuff, looking forward to actually getting involved and not getting torn apart by Beholder Kin and other nasties while walking about where I shouldn't have been!

[Bride at the Funeral]

I just want to say that I think the bright orange Safety Cloaks are a brilliant idea. Kudos to whomever came up with that idea, it's effin' perfect.

Reminds me so much of this.

[djspectre]

I have returned full time now and personally welcome the return to the Underdark. I played the first tour through the underdark and most of the 2nd chapter on Ymph. I skipped 99% of Mistlocke to take a break, but so far I'm happy to see the Underdark return to it's prominence.

[LastTyrant]

I played the first chapter when you guys just got started only for a little bit, but I thought everything was great. Now since I have gotten the privilege to play through a whole chapter in Mistlocke, I thought the DM's and players really brought things to fruition in a awesome way. The story feels fluid, and on going with so much opportunities.

I just really love all the things done, and appreciate the hard work the staff here has put into this world.

[Aethereal]

End of Chapter 3 was kind of like, Rocks fall, everyone dies. It ended up just being IC for my PC to not go on a suicidal romp down the Last Gate.

I can understand why it would be desirable from a DM standpoint, but for me personally that was a downer as I really found my character of the time would have been an excellent fit within the setting on the ongoing pursuit of secrets and upset of the throne of Gods. (Certain arguments pertaining to 'old characters' don't make sense for everyone--though I accept and support applying the general rule until some exception, i.e. via application/DM discussion is made.)

It was good to see ShadowCharlatan offer a prelude and provide options for characters with a strong narrative direction though. Which I would have gladly taken up, but I managed after several trial characters to get into EFU:R's Sanctuary (thanks to joining the elven moot basically right out of character creation and joining their wild tour around the Underdark as a useless level 2) and look forward to the Revelations that await, with the intention of playing a part in their uncovering and realisation.

A bit shaky at first, but I'm happy now.

[Damien]

I echo aethereal's statement, I did feel a bit let down dying to wordless thrall mob having just defeated and survived hbala but I do appreciate the fact having characters move setting is far too messy.  

I do think it all ended rather well though save for stargazers, their plots just seemed rather pointless which may have been due to reluctance to giving players the plot items earlier on but maybe there is more to come!

Real good stuff though, and I'm enjoying the new setting x

[RuinedDesires]

To me, the end of the last chapter was an emotional ride. From a grim setting, to a hopelessness and despair that I could never have imagined experiencing from a game.

Then, with oldport I was revived. I thoroughly enjoyed those couple of weeks in oldport. Plotting, gaining power, the sheer conflict that such a small place presented was astonishing. I suspected some kind of survival challenge was coming, yet when it did come I was left a bit disappointed by it.

Yet, I also understand the importance of a "fresh start" to this setting.

Sanctuary, has brought back the feeling of fear I had when I first joined the server. Exploring too far is dangerous, hell, even exploring close to home has resulted in a few close calls.

I like the change in level ranges, I like the way factions are operating, the detail to sanctuary, the story, the possibilities to me right now, are endless.

Unfortunately I do have some gripes, which I hope are a transitional thing.

The first being, questing. While, yes it is nice to see that the level range has dramatically dropped, that quests actually require some brains to complete. I feel that we are promotion small experienced quest groups, over large organised rabbles mixed of new and old players.

Spellcaster, whether clerics, bards, sorcerers or wizards, have a huge advantage in this setting for questing.

More so, certain perks that added flavour and a boost in the previous settings are now giving classes a rather massive boost in strength, in comparison to other classes.

Its hard to find a nice balance, to make things challenging enough that we do not see a supply bloat or numerous high end pcs. But at the same time, right now, I believe the message is coming across in a different tone and is causing allot of OOC frustration.

[Pentaxius]

Story-wise, I deeply enjoyed the immense changes that the server has seen. I am impressed by the scale and intricacies of the story, and I am hooked by the sheer amount of mysteries left to be uncovered. I am also excited at the prospect of having a few, carefully selected haks. the sheer amount of possibilities this change will bring is astonishing.

Concerning the mechanical changes, more specifically the new level range and the change in the supply system, first of all, I am sure they are undergoing significant adjustments and will continue to evolve in the next couple of months. that said, I've a couple of remarks.  

I still believe the 3.0 D20 system shines around level 8. I throughly enjoyed the previous level ''softcap'' in the sense that it gave an astonishing amount of possibility and build varieties. Many classes truly bloom around 8, for instance - the 2/3 AB classes receive their second APR at this level, a very consequential change.

As for the supplies, I used to be the first one to cry out against the drinking duels, for they had some sort of ridiculous feel to them. Then again, I adapted, and I became fond of the tactical aspect offered by consumables. Nonetheless, there is no denying that The EFU:M supply bloat issue we have experienced prior to the introduction of withered potions was indeed damaging to the general balance of the game.

I'd be more in favor, personally - of a system which would limit each potion types to a fixed number, for instance - five of each, while keeping them reasonably common (albeit less so than before) while questing. No more supply bloat, without crippling scarcity.

As Crytalos rightfully points out, the current system bends the balance further towards experienced, optimized groups. New players, or even - suboptimal class combinations, risk experiencing significant frustration.

As for the caster/non-caster class equilibrium, I'd say that for a full AB classe, receiving their second APR at level 6 offsets the downsides of having lower supplies compared to the 2/3 AB classes, given that most of them will never see their second APR.

Rogues, on the other-hand, fit in neither category. Both changes to supply levels and the soft-cap has impacted them more than others, I'd say.

To a lesser extend, this reasoning applies to sorcerers as well, since their supplies of spells at early levels are extremely limited, and somewhat offset by the level 8 perk benefits and the availability of new spells offered at higher levels.

I know it is very difficult to adjust these aspects, as each solution to an issue creates a new set of concerns. That said, I'm confident that in time, we will converge towards a good equilibrium.

[Howlando]

I think the level range isn't going to be so different as you guys seem to think. It's just now there's actual low level content, so advancement is a bit slower, and of course players are still figuring things out. But already we're starting to see the levels creep up quite a bit and more PCs starting to get very wealthy.

I would also remind players that in a setting in which gold is obviously far more plentiful perhaps they need to invest in supplying themselves a bit more rather than just having all the potions they could ever possibly want just fall out of  trees.

Naturally we don't want to make things impossible or too challenging for newer players but it's far better to work up from too little rather than start with too much.

[Pigadig]

There are so many new ways of earning gold in the new setting that aren't just limited to questing and faction membership that everyone has a good chance of being well supplied now I'd think. Even those who aren't tip top questing champions.

The only problem for me so far has been a distinct lack of divine brewers, but that's probably more down to my timezone than actual lack.

[Abandoned-1]

So many positive comments... looks like I have to be the one to throw the wrench into the steamworks. I hope I don't get railroaded for giving my honest opinion, as I assume that that is what this thread is for.

I honestly think this is a great server. There are things I've seen that I wouldn't have ever thought of while making a mod. However, despite my positive feelings towards the server, the parts where I reserve favour are in the presentation. I feel like a lot of the areas are too jumbled together, with no real direction. If I enter a doorway, and the front of the building is facing west, I except to enter a building going eastward bound. Not northward. In that regard, orienteering has become a challenge of pathfinding, rather than the knowledge of knowing landmarks. In the real world, i'm fairly good with a map and compass. It's not hard to figure out where you're going if you know what direction something is, based on the direction the face of a mountain faces. On here, you can't do anything like that, and it's not like it's impossible. There are many servers with seamless transitions. Before anyone starts on distance traveled warping perspective, i'm aware of that. But I really don't like the idea of going up the stairs, and through the main gate, only to return to the city from below it when I haven't been travelling straight down.

My other reservation has to do with the clutter of all the placeables making up the houses/ruins, and the massive gaps left in the floor of sanctuary, that have so many bridges spanning them. This is only my opinion, so I would appreciate not being flamed for this, but I would like to see the underdark city tiles being used the way they're meant to be used. Sanctuary doesn't need many winding streets, but the way it seems is that it doesn't really have any streets, unless you count the one or two below the town. I mean, I think Lower's exterior isn't too bad. I like the streets a lot. I would, however, prefer to see underdark building tiles pushed more into close quarters, forming narrow streets in upper, instead of having them on the outskirts with a few towers in the middle. I would also love to see more Drow and Illithid interiors for the pre-existing buildings, mixed with Barrow, maybe Fort, and Prison interiors for the buildings that the new residents have built (provided they're matched with exteriors like Poor Sector, or Cave Entrances), instead of the Castle and City interiors that either have too much wood in it, or simply don't fit. The Fort, Barrow, and Prison interiors can be made to look like they've been thrown together by surfacers, but I think it's important to consider that Dunwarren was originally built by Deep Gnomes, and that their architecture is not only still present, but still in use. It just feels like the deep cultural flair is missing from Sanctuary architecture, and that it's interiors all belong on the surface. As Howland told me story wise "The DM's have a pretty good sense of where the story is going." Maybe i'm over thinking it. Perhaps the DM's also know where the server belongs architecturally, but that's just how I feel. There are certainly a lot of things I would have done differently, but I trust the staff to make the decisions that have made this server a fun place to be. The harsh environment, the player base, and the creativity have all made it worthwhile, so in that regard, I would still give the server an 86%, which is an "A."

[Howlando]

I really appreciate the constructive criticism and welcome negative comments/players to indicate what they don't like. Thanks for that!

That said - I genuinely do think the areas match together, the problem is that we are not making clear when you're going down/up and to what extent. NWN really doesn't handle elevation very well. Maybe I can try to make it more clear with descriptor triggers or something. This map maybe helps?

Upper Sanctuary is intended to have the feel of being suspended over/on top of a pit in which Lower dwells. The use of chasms/bridges is very deliberate, although I can respect if it's not to your taste. Incorporating both many streets and chasms, given limitations of the toolset, would make Upper a hugely sprawling area, too large for a PW. The design now is to try to encourage interaction between characters, which I think at least has been somewhat successful. Consider the streets the narrow parts, the bridges, etc.

As far as interior areas goes, most of the interior areas of Sanctuary were constructed by surfacers using zurkhwood or stone. Practically the only original svirfneblin building in Upper is the Spellguard Tower. I also strongly dislike the use of the drow interior tileset for anything other than actual drow areas, as the depictions the drow on the walls is otherwise somewhat distracting.

But anyway thanks for the comments!

[Chronicler]

I missed the Big Transition and the first few hectic days and I've had some trouble assimilating my character from Ymph into the settlement of Sanctuary. Maybe because there was a lot to catch up on, from announcements and posts on the forum, to new mechanics when it comes to Sanctuary- but the transition from Ymph to Sanctuary feels so stark and complete that I've ended up feeling a bit like a useless relic and not really managing to figure out (yet?) where the character fits in now.

It might have been nice if there was more of Ymph/Mistlocke in Sanctuary to bridge the gap, then again it may be just me.

[el groso]

...It might have been nice if there was more of Ymph/Mistlocke in Sanctuary to bridge the gap, then again it may be just me.

There's a whole plot around those who came from Ymph and even an area made for them. There are NPCs and a lot of connections.