How to get in the loop?

[Ryan]

Not being shy, asking for help, becoming affiliated with or associated with other dynamic PCs, contacting the DM pushing the plot - I think trying these things will make for good results.

This is fine advice, but I've seen almost the exact opposite of it sometimes, at least as far as contacting DMs or asking for help is concerned. I sometimes feel as if I'm screaming into the wind whenever I work up the courage to ask something on the DM channel or talk to them on IRC, and the general philosophy when I even get a reply seems to be "help yourself first, then we'll help you."

And I'm unsure what exactly "helps," besides pushing plots and interacting with big name PCs, which I do, but it all seems to rope back around towards needing the DMs to get a particular thing done, which -in my experience- is damned hard to do.

This is probably for a bunch of reasons, like time zone differences, being too busy, my PC simply not being interesting enough to warrant investment in (conspiratorial as hell, I know, but it's the impression I tend to get, whether manufactured in my own head or true,) but the silence is just generally dispiriting, and I find myself merely making plans that go nowhere because I can't get the necessary oversight to accomplish them, or it's judged by others (PCs or otherwise) that they're not worth helping out with, for one reason or another.

And when I plan with other PCs, they either die or their own plans get paralyzed for such-and-such reason, while the plans of opposing factions (I hate to make that sound competitive) seem to be moving at a break neck pace. I'm unsure if maybe some factions are just getting more love at the moment cause of their current roster of PCs or what, but mine at least doesn't seem to be really going -anywhere.- It's not as bad as it was for my last PC, whose faction literally floundered for months before apparently dying, but it's not great either.

But yeah, I don't mean to make this sound bitter, it just feels like a constant uphill battle that I feel clueless on how to effect positively.

1) High-level players are not very prone to joining player-run factions,  with a few very notable exceptions, due to lack of perks and plots  offered. This means DM factions are where the main brunt of plots will  take place. I dont think this one is fixable.

Rare, but I've seen player factions work fantastically - the Gilded  Arrows, to name one I've been a part of and seen go to great heights.

[9lives]

but bro theres quests to smash

[9lives]

Show yourself to be interesting or proactive, or hopefully both, and we will facilitate your desire to tell a cool story.

[Teeth in a Bowl]

Rare, but I've seen player factions work fantastically - the Gilded   Arrows, to name one I've been a part of and seen go to great heights

The Brotherhood of Mercy, aswell.

[Howlando]

This is fine advice, but I've seen almost the exact opposite of it sometimes, at least as far as contacting DMs or asking for help is concerned. I sometimes feel as if I'm screaming into the wind whenever I work up the courage to ask something on the DM channel or talk to them on IRC, and the general philosophy when I even get a reply seems to be "help yourself first, then we'll help you."

I am guessing this relates to pushing PC initiatives. If you're trying to push a plot on your own, it will be harder, and does require demonstrating success on your own. DMs are limited with time and energy, and we can't rush to help out every player's effort, but certainly if we see something really cool most of us are happy to try to help.

If I were to guess, I'd guess that the plot that inspired this comment is something to do with grain trade with Caermyn and the Order... but here's the thing: grain plots make me, and probably most DMs, start to fall asleep... surely there's more exciting stuff out there to deal with?

[Ryan]

I wouldn't have pursued it at all if a DM hadn't explicitly called attention to it - my PC ran with it cause he's a diplomat and negotiator. That's his thing - he doesn't cause conflicts, he tries to mend them... which, hilariously enough, is the antithesis of this server's philosophy on what "fun" is.

(The DMs weren't really the problem there, by the way. I mean, maybe a little, but it took everyone forever to get back to my character on what should have been a really simple matter.)

The current grain plot has ran into a brick wall for other reasons which I won't get into here.

[Howlando]

I do not think it is fair to say that this server's philosophy is that mending conflicts is boring. Sounds kind of cynical to me. We can discuss these concerns privately.

[Ryan]

Sure - I use the "Erwin" handle on IRC.

Edit: never mind, apparently it's Ryan now

[Aethereal]

That's his thing - he doesn't cause conflicts, he tries to mend them... which, hilariously enough, is the antithesis of this server's philosophy on what "fun" is.

And without conflict to mend, what would they do then?

Conflict comes in so many forms. The pursuit of remedy itself will give birth to offshoot issues, which in turn provides something to engage with. I've found you don't have to exactly achieve a goal if the pursuit of that perhaps unachievable goal is a source of continuous intrigue or excitement.

My advice is to not get caught up in nursing progress. Surely pursue it, but be ready to review what you're trying to achieve and reinvision it if it doesn't seem to be working out. You may find most of your experiences more rewarding that way. Creativity is your only limit.

[Nihm]

You need allies and playing orthodox characters hurts that.
 
Play the sort of amoral opportunist who fits in anywhere and it is much easier.  Or someone willing to lower themselves to the level of others for gains.
 
Very few characters consistently stand for something.  They do so selectively, when it suits them or when they're grandstanding for a dm.
 
Having an uptight or honorable character is just about impossible so maybe you should try something a bit more easy going.

[Ryan]

Having an uptight or honorable character is just about impossible so maybe you should try something a bit more easy going.

Pulling this off in its own right seems like it'd be rewarding, though, in more ways than one!

[Trevor White]

I find that amoral opportunists are good chillout PCs, but putting a set of consistent rules or plot hooks in place for a PC gives to a reason to do stuff. For example, EfU has had a number of successful Paladins, and they are PCs who have horrible mechanical penalties for compromising their principles. Also, playing a character with A Cause gives you an automatic ally pool of people with similar Causes. Principles BTW don't have to make you Good or Lawful or anything. Captain Harrison was a pirate who steadfastly avoided killing as a point of principle. I played a Jergali Scrivener who *could* animate the dead, had all the skills for it but only did it under what she considered dire circumstances. Several PCs have stuck to their deals and threats, building a reputation on it as both trustworthy and frightening. Putting some form of principle on your PC gives you things to deal with rather than just Quest Loot Numbers Go Up, and extra roleplay if you are forced to compromise it to survive, or for a greater belief. It's especially good if your point of principle is unexpected based on your PC's image.

I find one of my biggest RP roadblocks is running in to PCs that stand for something so uncompromisingly they avoid The Dreaded Character Development at all costs and are immune to diplomacy, which is another way of saying Immunity: Roleplaying :P.

One thing I'd mention to the DMs about Grain Plots Etc is that if you create a problem with the server, players will want to solve it and they'll even enjoy solving it in an obvious way. I understand that it's more fun to watch a PC try and solve a famine by HUNTING THE GREAT WHITE WHALE OF YMPH AND SALTING ITS CARCASS rather than negotiate a grain deal, but if logical solutions don't work, you're left with confused players wondering why someone else got the glory for a really dumb (IC) idea.

[dig_dug]

What may seem cool and fun for one player, the DM team may think is stupid, boring, a waste of time. Being ignored or not helped because what you find fun about EFU doesn't fit the PvP / MAJOR CONFLICT WILL RESULT FROM THIS EPIC THING mold is something that has put me off greatly. I remember when EFU was less about PvP and what will come and more about delving into dungeons and lore, just because. Sometimes, some things have simple solutions and sometimes a small little boost, talk, or even tiny favor from a DM that would take a mere 5 minutes can make ALL the difference.
 
That said, the most important thing I find, which I am also 100% guilty of is STAYING WITH ONE CHARACTER and NOT QUITTING from aggravation.  Also no alternate characters helps.  Just talk to everyone and make friends or enemies.  Take people on quests or explore, be active.  I think it's as simple as that.  Put yourself out there!

[Vlaid]

I think a lot of the cynical viewpoints expressed here are sort of self-fufilling prophecy unto themselves. When you believe nothing happens without "DURP MASSIVE PERMA DEATH AND PVP DM CONSPIRACY RAILROADS ECT", you stop trying to push your stuff in your way, you stop believing it's possible....and there you go. You end up right where you expected you would.

I myself have at times fallen victim to these sort of player cynicisms that you see espoused in many of these posts....but I feel the more you can keep them out of mind, the more likely you are to overcome them and prove they are entirely wrong and inspire other players to do the same.

Sometimes it's just hard for players to admit, or for anyone to say to you directly, that you just aren't doing much to push your agenda and interests, that you aren't doing so in any interesting way that people can get on board with, and that you shouldn't expect advancement in the way you are pushing things. If what you are doing isn't working, try something different. Don't take it as a personal insult that you suck or everyone is out to get you or something.

[Caster13]

I think the key to getting involved in plots is flexibility and determination.

Flexibility in terms of allowing your character to be affected and changed by the plots currently occurring around him/her. Fact of the matter is, because of the nature of plots (i.e., the plots generally being bigger than the characters involved in them), it's much more likely that your character will need to change (maybe a little, maybe a lot) to become involved with a plot more than the plot will change before appealing to your character.

While flexibility will enable you to get involved in plots, it's determination that'll make it happen. I think the simplest way is to just talk: "Hey, what's going on? Has anything interesting happened in the village today? Do you know anything about [insert rumour post here] and who's involved with it?"

Yes, the nature of a persistent world means this can require a huge investment in time before you meet the right person and strike the right conversation, but I think it's still the most direct and quickest way to get involved, i.e., "This plot sounds relevant to my interests." "This is a person I know who is involved in the plot." "This is where/when I can find him."

Sometimes this'll be simple if the plot's more open and general and a bunch of people are openly involved. Other times, if say, you're trying to get involved in a villainous/secret group of people, there'll be a few hoops you'll have to get through, though these hoops are IC.

the majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding

I think this is simply inexcusable if it's the case of your inquiring character being OOCly ignored. It doesn't take much effort to type out [This person ignores you like a jerk] before continuing on walking.

Anyway, if you see Clara Smogson IG, talk to her. She's a chatterbox (unless she's running for her life).