How to get in the loop?

[Rimmeke]

[SIZE="2"]I usually shun public posts, but I figured that past there might be other players who share my experience and have some thoughts and insight to offer. If you are just going to construe this as a list of whines and complaints, then I kindly ask you to refrain from commenting. I am just asking for some constructive advice.

The crux of the matter is that I always feel, in one way or the, out of the general loop. I cannot seem to manage to grasp the general feel or plots that are running on the server, nor can I seem to, in some way, involve myself in them.

I’ve tried playing in DMfactions, but I always seem to misunderstand the kernel of the factions’ philosophy and/or agenda and thus I always end up the orthodox outsider or feeling like I am trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  There is certainly nothing wrong with being the orthodox pariah, but it is a rather lonely character to play. I always end up simply feeling frustrated and abandoning the character.

I generally try to engage in conversation with characters I meet. My problem here is three-fold, sometimes I cannot even find other players (despite circling the local haunts), the majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding (or be AFK).

Now, an easy solution to meet other characters would be to make sending for quests, but the embarrassing truth is- I do not know where the majority of the quests are. I can name, perhaps, a handful of the lower-end-quests, but for those higher up on the quest-scale I would simply be unable to lead a group to the quest-giver.

I could certainly also try to organize random expeditions, but they always end up being costly, deadly ventures and I’m an often left with the general impression that people a) had a miserable time of it or b ) thought it was a quest.

I suppose I might also OOCly ask players where people are, but I am rather unnerved by such approaches, because I do not feel I am familiar enough with players to intrude upon their ventures.

What am I missing or failing to do?
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[Howlando]

To begin, I think there is a lesson to be had that you originally posted this in the "Off Topic" forum (I intended to move it into the general discussion). It's a subject entirely appropriate for being in General Discussion.

I definitely think this is worth discussing. I'd be extremely happy to try to figure out how to make our major plots more accessible to more players.

[Pelorean]

I felt like this when I first started off on EFU, it went away as I played through to the middle of EFU:A, and now have it again to some degree in EFU:M, but not as severe- so I hope I can comment helpfully on this:

I think it boils down to a couple issues:

1) High-level players are not very prone to joining player-run factions, with a few very notable exceptions, due to lack of perks and plots offered. This means DM factions are where the main brunt of plots will take place. I dont think this one is fixable.

2) The quests rarely change- there is no real rotation or randomization of available quests. This means a veteran player will be up to level 6 in a day, while it will take a new player a week, due to knowledge of quests.

3) This means that while a experienced player can successfully start a player faction due to their established name and quick leveling, a new player will almost certainly fail. However, new players are more prone to trying to start their own faction, while more skilled  players have learned that often the most rewarding time is to be had in a DM faction.

4) This means that at any time, at least 1 in 3 players will be in a DM faction. DM factions tend to, for IC reasons, often keep to their own for quest expeditions. So, for a new, low level, unaffiliated character- finding a questing party is hard, as everyone's either quick-leveled above their heads or are in their own parties.

5) The IRC/Forum/Age of this place means that there is some social separation too- but honestly I think that's not a huge deal and this is by far the most welcoming community I've been in.

Overall- I think it might be part of any PW, and I think while we can work to make the server as welcoming as possible for newcomers, in the long-run the best option is for the player to get as involved as possible so they can feel like part of the server.

[Vlaid]

I'll just toss out some very basic advice that I've learned over my last couple PC's that (to my mind at least) feels to have drastically increased their involvement.

• Take initiative to seek out PC's of note with reputations that might be able to help you achieve your goals. Inevitably they will want something of you, bam, you're involved.
• Find ways to create "fluff" stuff that can involve PC's with your PC. Ie, being a merchant, brewer, potion crafter, alchemy, herbalism, bard who writes songs about famous PC's, ect. Just something that doesn't take a ton of effort to kill time with other PC's and interact organically.
• Don't be afraid to risk your PC on perma events, that doesn't mean suicidal. You might die, but if you never risk perma death for things that matter to your PC you're going to have a lot of trouble convincing anyone of your PC's dedication, worth and skill to achieve what is important to them.

A lot of it just comes down to luck in being at the right place at the right time saying the right thing. You may be having some difficulty because so many of the plots in motion right now are HYPER SUPER secretive.

Other times you just need to find ways to establish your own personal reputation of some kind before you can get involved in certain plots.

I hope some of this rambling was of some use to you.

[Howlando]

I'm going to try my hand at offering some suggestions.

Let us first define a "Plot." For the purposes of EFU and this discussion, let us assume that a "Plot" is some kind of thread of story within the EFU setting that will probably lead to some kind of change.

There are various kinds of plots - player-initiative plots and DM-managed plots.

A player-initiative plot is something that a player comes up with and pursues mostly independently of NPC or DM support. Often times these are the most difficult to make happen, because generally DM support will come either irregularly or when DMs start to get really impressed by what is being accomplished. Sometimes these plots also tend to be quite pvp-intensive. Examples of these player-plots around at the moment are things like - the PC faction "Order of New Netheril," efforts to claim Old Stones as a personal fiefdom, long-term rivalries between different PCs, pursuing Bloodmage or other prestige classes, etc. Getting involved in these kinds of plots is probably as simple as just speaking with the characters involved.

A DM-managed plot is a bit different, and are sometimes more "epic" in scale.

Identifying these is probably the first step, and deciding which ones make sense for your character to get involved with. Probably it also helps to identify the DM who seems to be pushing the plot, and making sure your play-times are congruent.

Using the "Gossips and Rumor" thread is probably a useful tool for identifying what kind of major stuff is going down, or alternatively you could speak with a DM and say, "hey what active plots are being pushed right now?" - I think we'd be happy to share. It's worth noting that plots sometimes take months and months (or even years?) to unfold.

In my next post let's look at some examples...

[VanillaPudding]

I had a long winded response ready for you but feel it is best that I simply leave you with this -

You play quality characters (defined, thought out, etc) and interacting with you via roleplay has always been fun. Do not be scared to approach people OOCly with tells or in IRC, and try your best to understand your character's place in the world.

Secondly, identifying plots can be done through the rumor threads most often, and also by whatever you may find interesting via the player posts in public boards or otherwise. If something interests you being run by a player, then join it (if their timezone matches you somewhat) and enjoy! If a DM is doing something you can figure it out via the other mentioned channels and become involved numerous ways (asking them in irc, purely IC, or a combination).

Lastly, understand that EFU is somewhat different than your typical roleplaying environment. This is probably the part I struggle with / whine about the most myself, but really they are telling a story (known already or figured out as they go) and it is -very- hard to change that. What you need to do is to try and decipher the -direction- of things and decide whether or not you want to flow with it or oppose it, and those both have countless options / factions to do it with.

EDIT : They are often quite supportive of both directions if you display effort and flavor!

My primary suggestion on this topic for the DMs would be to evaluate the difficulty of your clues / provided lore concerning the plots and how to interact with them. It is certainly a very fine line between giving it away and not giving away anything, but I have often been a little blindsided by he result or actual direction of things even when directly involved. I imagine that this stems from simply knowing the result and thinking that the clues and lore are obvious when compared to having no knowledge of something and trying to stab at the dark. Give us a few more hints now and then! :)

[Howlando]

For my first example, we'll discuss the "Diluvian City" plot. It's finished now, so I won't spoil much by discussing it.

Of course the Diluvian City has existed as part of our setting since the first days of EFU:A, but for most of that time it was in a state of tension: the city was divided between the traditionalist Mythkeepers, the bloodthirsty "Ragers," and the thralls of the mysterious "Veneroida."

ShadowCharlatan began a plot (starting with a prelude) around december of last year with the aim of resolving this tension and establishing what the future of this city will be.

To get involved, players could:

- Join the original prelude (and stick with their PC, as many did not)
- Have a character that was recruited by either side (The Faithful of the Mythkeepers or the Thralls of the Veneroida)
- Have a character that approached these PCs to learn about what was happening below the sea
- Have a character that was associated or allied with another PC that was more directly involved in these happenings
- Once involved, participate or exert influence on the various events that established in which direction the City would go...
- Be present for the amazing resolution, and retire to NPC glory or continue play

Another example -

"A Journey into the Dark" - this was the journey of a dozen or so PCs that took part in an expedition into the Underdark. You were present, yet it seemed like you missed most of the events, so maybe giving some feedback on it would be helpful.

- As you know, PCs were smuggled into Traensyr and provided cloaks that changed their appearance so they could walk around the main trading part of the city. Although most of the gates leading out were blocked or locked, there WAS a secret way that PCs could explore independently of a DM that revealed two other districts of the city that contained a great number of different clues and hints about what was going on down there (unfortunately only one player, as far as I know, saw some of it...)

- There were a lot of events being run by DMs that simply required showing up

- Asking questions from the other PCs about their goals, objectives, etc.
- Asking for a NPC to be possessed for questioning, etc.

The idea being that by collecting different kinds of information, a PC can in some way put together a narrative and theory, put together the puzzle and begin to understand what's going on....

In my next post, I'll discuss some examples of current plots.

[Vlaid]

I agree with VP to some extent about the difficulty sometimes of discovering clues about lore and server plots. I had never even heard of the "Horn of Ymph" being an actual item until it was basically spelled out via NPC public post. Generally speaking sometimes I get the impression that it's just certain people who know enough stuff OOCly from playing in every faction to put it all together, maybe not directly metagaming, but you can at least make a lot better guesses when you've seen the inside of a lot of factions.

I pretty much never make any kind of lore/scholar type PC's because I simply have no idea how some people get their information. Just feels like it springs out of nowhere to the casual onlooker.

I don't know how you make some of it more accessible without making it too accessible to the people who consistently seem to always put themselves into the position of knowing a great deal about all the most secretive plots.

[The Old Hack]

Two things.

One, there is a LOT of stuff going on in EfU. This is a large part of its charm. We have dozens of very energetic and active players, many of whom have plots large and small going on. If you sometimes feel confused or even intimidated by this, that is perfectly understandable! Many a time I have seen a screenshot or rumour thread and thought, "What in the world? This stuff was going on just next door to me and I never noticed?" And yes, that can be a bit dismaying at times, but I also think it shows just how much effort and love we all put into EfU. Players certainly do not intentionally shut you out -- it is just that there is so much happening that it is easy to feel overwhelmed by it all!

Two, if you would like 'in' on this stuff, the very best way is to ask. Either OOCly in IRC or on the forums or ICly of the characters themselves. We have many good players who are great and helpful people and they are usually happy to help other players out. Occasionally they will be busy, but even then they will gladly come back to you later when they have more time. The forums are as always your friend here; IC letters or OOC queries in the General forum will often bear fruit and lead to later ingame encounters that you can build on.

I'd like to finish with this: you are not alone in feeling lost at times. It has happened to me as well. I have found that the solution almost always lies in asking for a helping hand. That can be hard if you are shy or worried about bothering people, but really, the best of us will always have time for helping you out in making your character fit in.

~tOH.

[Howlando]

"The Steps of Sanq"

This is the main plot I'm personally working on at the moment, and I'd be very happy for any player to get involved (in any capacity, including opposition!).

Let me begin by saying that the fate of this plot is not predetermined, and player action can influence significantly in which direction it goes. As an example, the plot is already wildly off track from originally planned.

Finding the "Horn of the Sleeper" (although possible without DM supervision since some of the earliest days of EFU:M) is not something that I expected to have happen, but is certainly an excellent example of how a dedicated player was able to solve a riddle and therefore exert significant influence on the development of the plot.

If you're willing to play a PC that consorts with evil skeletons (not to everyone's taste, I certainly understand) + happy to embrace significant risk, joining the group of PCs pursuing the Steps of Sanq is certainly one option - with access to the forum, I think how to be involved in the plot that way will become very clear.

If you prefer to oppose these PCs, it is again a question of gathering information and identifying other PCs who are in opposition. And then simply reaching out to them, getting in touch, consulting, and coming up with a plan or method of opposing them.

As the famous quote goes, "80% of success is showing up." Although of course we all have restraints on playing time, paying attention to IRC or being available for scheduled events is important (of course) if you wish to have a role in them.

Not being shy, asking for help, becoming affiliated with or associated with other dynamic PCs, contacting the DM pushing the plot - I think trying these things will make for good results.

[Howlando]

Putting together puzzles and figuring out lore - this is another thing, maybe worth a second discussion. The truth is that we do make serious effort to disguise and hide some aspects of our setting. I tend to think that figuring things out can be some of the most fun that EFU provides. Balancing secrets for players that surprise me with their capacity for investigation vs. those that struggle with it more is difficult....

[Howlando]

Here is an opportunity for anyone who wants to get involved in things.

[Aethereal]

I pretty much never make any kind of lore/scholar type PC's because I simply have no idea how some people get their information. Just feels like it springs out of nowhere to the casual onlooker.

As mysterious as it might seem, pursuing mysteries and uncovering lore is not terribly complicated. It does involve a lot of reading though and most likely a good deal of writing if you want to do it well. Make full use of the awesome in-game library or the forum version of it--how excellent is it that the Curios and Epistles has works from the earlier settings?--and get acquainted with the history of the Shrouded Isles.

You'll also find that the game world itself is littered with hints and facts that can be linked together--thoroughly explore it and pay attention. The scrawlings, the journals lying about, the skeletons worn by time and pretty much all of the objects you can see are more often than not laden with meaning that contributes to the story.

But if you don't want to do anything like that, you can always just find PCs who are involved in such things and chat them up. Oh yes, chatting with PCs is a great source of clues and information regarding the more PC oriented plots and events as well as the larger ongoing metaplot; simply being involved in the setting helps.

Putting together puzzles and figuring out lore - this is another thing, maybe worth a second discussion. The truth is that we do make serious effort to disguise and hide some aspects of our setting. I tend to think that figuring things out can be some of the most fun that EFU provides. Balancing secrets for players that surprise me with their capacity for investigation vs. those that struggle with it more is difficult....

I think that is a good point to make. If you discover something big, you may inadvertently spoil the discovery process for the rest of the playerbase. Players come to realise this as well, I think, which may be why some of the more secretive stuff is always kept well guarded within specific factions--the Transcendent Conclave had a great archive, for example, and the Sharantil initiative of keeping secrets secret helped solidify that. This was a good thing though, as it did encourage people to join the faction, which in turn encouraged involvement in the setting.

With that said, it is important to realise that individual characters are also contributing to the lore and that not everything is predetermined by DM controlled NPCs. Which is where I will quote the glorious, VanillaPudding:

This is probably the part I struggle with / whine about the most myself, but really they are telling a story (known already or figured out as they go) and it is -very- hard to change that. What you need to do is to try and decipher the -direction- of things and decide whether or not you want to flow with it or oppose it, and those both have countless options / factions to do it with.

[Aethereal]

I generally try to engage in conversation with characters I meet. My problem here is three-fold, sometimes I cannot even find other players (despite circling the local haunts), [COLOR="Red"]the majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding[/COLOR] (or be AFK).

This is sad, but a common enough occurrence that should be avoided wherever possible. I encourage people to interact with PCs who are making an effort to interact with your PC. This is in fact one reason why we set our characters to walk rather than run while in town (at the bare minimum)--to encourage interaction.

[Pentaxius]

Many great responses to this thread, it speaks at length of the quality of the player-base. I'll just add a point : persistence is key, and carries its own reward.

I'd also encourage playing as a side-kick, some players out there are outright stellar, and there is much to learn on how to push goals and agendas by providing them with much needed assistance and observing them along the way. Side-kicks can be truly excellent characters, and even overshadow the leader in their aura !  For this purpose, it helps to get in touch with players of a faction/group you'd like to fit in prior to making your character - directions never hurt !