In-game conflict VS OOC fun

[MidnightBlues]

I log on this evening with my character Anduinn Finlodir, which is an elf. We all know the conflicts that are going on right now between the elves and the humans. My spawn point is at the Mist's End. As my character walks towards the exit, several PCs in the inn glare at my elf and two of them choose to follow him. I've started to play for 20 seconds at this point.

Outside of the inn, those people decided they wanted to search Anduinn. We roleplay a bit but since my guy is not the weak-willed sort, he refuses. I start to type something but then the other character turns to hostile, I am not given much time to react and Anduinn gets beaten. I've been online for one minute, maybe one and a half.

It's a thing to roleplay that you don't like elves because of whatever they may have done, but it is another one to catch them right on their spawn point and ''almost'' jump on them. (thank god people waited for me to leave the inn!) Usually I like to take a look at my keyboard shortcuts to refresh my memory and in that case make some order in my pack since I died the other day...it doesn't look like I'll have the chance to do so with such an attitude towards my character. I did not felt like I was on a roleplay server, but rather on a PVP arena one. Some might tell me that I ''shouldn't'' set my spawn point in the inn given the current situation in the gameworld. Well this isn't a reason to jump on people when they barely had time to get in the mood of roleplaying : act with some decency even though you do not approve. The way I left the game afterwards might not have been the best for roleplay's sake (even though I roleplayed a bit and I did not say anything harmful on my OOC message) but getting PVPed on my first minute online just turned off any desire to roleplay. (We're already lucky the roleplay part of that evening outlasted the PVP part, otherwise it felt like a reason to PVP Anduinn.)

So ''think before you act''. Think with both an ''IG'' point of view and an ''OOC'' one. Yes, there are risks when you are implied in a conflict with another faction, but if what you're going won't bring much, then you should reconsider if it is worth doing it.


EDIT : I highlighted the points that I want to be taken into consideration when they are not.

[Lord Byron]

This sounds like an amazing experience man, but I can see your point. Most people don't consider, however, how long you've been in game as long as you are aware and responding to it. Your character is an elf when there is a lot of elf hatred at the moment due to in game events, EFU isn't going to babysit it. It's just part of the game. Half Orcs are hated, half-elves are treated like shit, and halflings are all thieves.

[RagingPurpleGiant]

I wasn't involved in this, but it seems to me your character invited violence upon himself in refusing to be searched. If they had a DM and turned you hostile before the PvP began it doesn't seem like they did anything I'd consider to be OOCly hostile or unfriendly.

You acted in character in being a strong willed elf and refusing their request, and they acted in character in being racist human thugs who're afraid of the elf who's acting suspicious. The moment your character chooses to oppose the agenda of another character you're accepting certain risks, and the risk in this case was a beating.

I would like to add that I don't believe a roleplaying server needs to be low PvP in order to qualify as a roleplaying server, only that your character does what he or she would do in a given situation and remains generally OOC friendly to other players.

[MidnightBlues]

It is not the roleplay that I criticize, it is the fact that you do not have the time to get in the mood that you get attacked during your first minute online. Did I talk about babysitting? I talked about ''be reasonable and let the player get in-game. How about 2 minutes?''.

[sylvyrdragon]

The problem with this is there is a chance that people don't notice when you log in.  I don't watch the logs to see when someone logs in.

I understand your frustration though, honest I do.  The only thing I can offer.. is maybe use this situation to push your character.  Does his beating push him to join the other Elves?  Or maybe it pushes him to visually fight against them?

Try not to let this get to you, trust me I know it can.  I've quit a character I enjoyed a lot due to situations like this.  Being put in the middle of PvP due to other characters actions, being randomly attacked because of other people, it's rough especially if you are not really a PvP person.  Try to find someway to be OK with it, and use it IC'ly to drive your character.  Wish I had more helpful words, or some sage advise that would make this all seem right.. sadly I don't.

[The Old Hack]

Hm. While I can see your point, you do have a couple of options. While it is of course always preferable to handle as much as possible ICly, spawn points are a meta thing that are hard to get around at times. If you make an OOC request of [// Guys, I just logged on for the first time today, please give me a couple minutes to work things out and I'll be at your disposal], or alternately [ // Guys, I forgot to reset my spawn point, I am not actually ICly here, please let me leave and I'll get out of your hair and reset spawn point at once], I think most or even all players on the server will respect that and cut you some slack.

I have seen this happen several times, most notably back in EfU: A when to my astonishment a major villain at the time logged in right in front of me at the stairs of the Ziggurat. He explained OOCly that it was due to a spawn point bug and everyone present let him depart with the best of good will so he could get bound back in the Docks where he belonged. However, in order for this to happen, you do have to point it out -- other players are not psychic and the knee jerk reflex is to assume that you are there and know what you are doing. I know this to my sorrow as I have at least twice received angry Tells from players who felt that I had abused vulnerability from them having to log in in a sucky place. All I can say in defence against this is that if you do tell me [// Arrgh, I logged in in a stupid place, please cut me some slack], I promise you that I'll do so.

Lastly, as was pointed out, confrontative RP will lead to confrontations, often to your disadvantage. And that is part of the game. If you don't feel you are able to let up on the attitude, you have to accept that you will at times get some nasty lumps as a consequence. But even these can become motivators! Revenge can drive a lot of RP, after all. :)

Anyway, I am sorry if you had a bad experience. The one consolation I can offer is that the sting usually fades after a bit and sometimes you can at least glean some useful experience from the event as well.

~tOH.

[Big Orc Man]

So why didn't you place your spawn point elsewhere?

Don't get me wrong - I love seeing this kind of conflict.

But you WERE ICly in that tavern, and they ICly reacted.

If you choose your spawn in a hostile area, that can definitely happen.  You could always use stealth/etc to avoid their ire.

[AKMatt]

It's definitely not encouraged to attack people right after they log in, and it sounds like it was an exasperating experience.  However, the scenario described sounds, from your own account, as one in which people were behaving ICly.  In-character behavior is basically the "gold standard" to refer to when judging validity of any event on EfU, though I have often advocated letting things slip a little when doing so can provide reasonable OOC courtesy.  In this case, the IC actions of the human characters sound completely justified.  While it is unfortunate that you logged into a hostile situation, it is not reasonable to expect everyone else to pay attention to you logging in.  Many players play with combat/server log disabled.  Nearly everyone uses "funky" camera angles indoors, and it's entirely reasonable for people to miss your "fade into existence" animation on initial log-in.

Mostly, you seem to have caught the wrong end of unfortunate circumstances, with no guilty party.  However, there is a notion expressed in the original post that I would like to correct.  This is relevant to many OOC conversations I have seen in my time on EfU.  The following excerpt is distressing because it bespeaks a philosophically different approach to playing Neverwinter Nights than has historically been promoted for EfU, and there are many players who share your sentiment these days.

... getting PVPed on my first minute online just turned off any desire to roleplay. (We're already lucky the roleplay part of that evening outlasted the PVP part, otherwise it felt like a reason to PVP Anduinn.)

What I want to point out here is that PVP and RP are not two separate things.  Even the term "PVP"--meaning "player vs. player"--is a misnomer, because what takes place on EFU is, in the majority of cases (and this one, specifically, from all that I see described) "character vs. character" conflict.  A character losing a fight does not imply that the player of the character lost a fight.  The player "wins" the opportunity to roleplay a victim of circumstances beyond their control, one of the archetypal everyman hero scenarios used by writers in fiction since basically forever.  Often-times, playing a loser or victim well is more impressive than playing a bravado-laden champion, and sometimes it can be just as fun.

I would encourage everyone to really put effort into their performances during and immediately following defeat in DPCRP (Direct physical conflict roleplaying, which I'm aware has zero chance of catching on as an alternative term for PVP).  You don't need to achieve Sean Bean proficiency at dying or anything, but EfU will be much more enjoyable if you approach it with the mindset that there's no such thing as losing.

[Jayde Moon]

If this were something that occurred with any real regularity, I would say it would be something that should perhaps be addressed, but it seems like the stars aligned for a rather unlucky experience.

Sounds like no fun, but sometimes, events conspire to kick us in the face through no real fault of the folks involved.

Dust yourself off and keep trucking and we'll keep our fingers crossed that it's not going to come up again for you anytime soon!

[Guttersnipe]

The unfortunate elf happened to walk through the room of the Mist's End at the very moment some Aberdenn PCs were getting drunk over the killing of one of their compatriots by the Eldreth Veluuthra. As a result the elf was followed outside by one of the bannersmen. To be honest, I'd have been more surprised if the elf wasn't harassed in this particular circumstance.

It was indeed unfortunate timing, but it wasn't exactly as if it was a confrontation the very moment the elf logged on. It happened outside the tavern, and only turned to violence once the elf refused to be searched.

These are the sorts of things that happen on EfU, and frankly they're encouraged. Sure, it can be a little jolting, but it was a brief PvP and then a search, and then the elf was sent on his way.

All of the players who have been here for a time have likely had this happen to them dozens of times. When you're new it takes some adjusting to these things. But after a bit you come to realize that such conflict is a boon to EfU, and worth the short amount of stress and confusion you go through when it happens to you. Without these kinds of conflict the roleplay would frankly break down as players stretch the bounds of credulity in order to avoid direct conflict. It's these things that make EfU seem alive and vibrant, though on occasion you'll wind up being the one who's PC eats a bit of dirt in the process.

[Corrigo]

Yeah, sounds to me like the elf was the one who provoked the need for combat.

As you say, you -know- the current IC atmosphere is anti-elf, yet when the authorities in the place your PC chooses to live in show up and make a reasonable demand to which you can submit with absolutely zero disadvantage to yourself, you choose to aggravate them deliberately.

And you're surprised they beat you down?

I think a bigger issue here is the huge fuss people always make over having their pack searched when they have nothing to hide and it doesn't damage them either.

And then there's getting subdued, which costs you nothing either, save a few charges of healing to get back up, or if you're a cheapskate, a quick walk to the arena healing placeable.


Seriously, how was anything that happened a negative experience save for it being a blow to your PC's ego, which is, and let me stress this, NOT A REAL THING? You are not in control of the way the world reacts to your character, and I for one am happy with that (general) fact.

[Coldburn]

Sounds like awesome interaction - I might just change my spawn point to Mist's End for more interaction there.

Not gonna go into details but the situation as described seems 100% legit, considerate, motivated RP and PvP, so it should be cool.

[Letsplayforfun]

TBH I'm a bit surprised by this kind of post.

I don't know what you expected. People aren't going to ask you if you're in the mood to rp conflict today, or check how long you've been logged on.

It's not like you were killed by a spawn on login in, or people didn't give you time to react, nor even attak you without any prior discussion, or ganked you while you were afk, or anything remotely buggy or unfair.

As much as OOC consideration is VERY important, I don't think this situation warrants it.

I think a lot of us would enjoy being immersed as quickly as you did, instead of waiting 15mn before meeting anyone in town. Just cool down and enjoy the game!

My 2c.

[Pandip]

I truthfully can't recall which of the elves you are (there were so many wonkily named elves with the same portraits prior to RWG biting the bullet) and it might be spoilerific to comment on your character specifically, but I think it's relevant to note what you allowed your character be subjected to based on the situation that took place. You're an elf that's hanging around Mistlocke during a time where it's being viciously assaulted by a band of warmongering, anti-human elven assassins and bandits. You had to expect that this would happen at some point, especially if your login spot is right smack dab in the middle of the place that's being targeted by this organization.

The thing is, you have to be ready for these kinds of situations the moment you log onto EFU. You can't log in with the mentality of "alright, I'm going to OOCly do this and setup my pack and twiddle my thumbs for a couple of minutes while I let this wine cooler settle me down a bit," because that's truthfully just setting yourself (and anyone around you) up for lackluster roleplay. I'm with Letsplayforfun on this one; I think you should be excited that you were engaged in roleplay and conflict so quickly rather than have to wait for an hour after logging into to, say, run across another PC on team nature when you're playing a Stargazer.

Don't get me wrong, to a certain extent, I sympathize. Just the other day I had logged in late at night just a few minutes before going to bed for the sake of getting a quick interaction with a PC I hadn't seen for a while and then find a resting place to memorize spells because I hadn't bothered to take care of them after the last invasion. Within about five seconds of logging in, my elf walked past the Crossroads gate on her way to the Springs and was assaulted by two PC's that threatened her, fully buffed, knocked her flat on her ass, and then cut off an ear.

The first reaction, of course, is to be disheartened. It sucks to lose. Dying with a "Sean Bean frequency" on EFU can often feel like failure. But you have to understand the consequences (both good and bad) of interactions like that. You lost PvP. Ouch, that's rough. Your ego (IC and OOC) is a little bruised. Not cool, man. But now you have the opportunity to roleplay a conflict between you and another PC (or a pair of PC's, or even a group of them) and that can culminate in some really cool stuff. In my case, I had the opportunity to completely revamp my PC's haughty demeanor into one that was indignant and wounded in the aftermath of such a harrying experience with an enemy, on top of being able to throw around some cool roleplay tied to the fact that she was missing her ear. Describing the wound and its bandages and using that IC to motivate other PC's into joining her cause was a pretty cool aftermath to an experience that didn't end well for my PC, and I think you need to approach situations like this with that mentality. Ask yourself "what can I do with this awful situation to make it into something more interesting for the future?" It doesn't always work, but it's a good attitude to have.

All and all, I'd have to say the entire situation felt pretty appropriate considering the circumstances. You have to be aware of the dynamic world around you, because it's just that -- dynamic.

[efuincarnate]

Awuful timing and bad luck, but seems such a thing would spurn an innocent elf to don the mantle of Lord Commander.  Make them pay for your beating!