DMs Are Humans

[Howlando]

Yesterday a massive, unplanned PvP incident occurred within the town (NPC area) which was not pre-planned and was only witnessed by one (new) DM. As the incident rapidly grew out of control and uninvolved participants started to jump in/FD/steal, the stressed out DM made the correct call to reverse FDs on both sides and call it (in effect) a stale-mate. I understand that some players, perhaps understandably caught up in the heat of the moment, were upset about this - a cursory review of the logs to see what some of you guys were saying OOC is down right disappointing.

This decision the DM made was absolutely the correct decision to make. The biggest threat to EFU's ongoing survivability is not which simulated character or faction or another wins any particular conflict for a day, but rather the unfortunate truth that so many of our volunteer, unpaid DMs grow increasingly burned out and unmotivated to log in and deal with you guys (the players). In order to delay the onset of DM burn-out, DMs may from time to time decide that they just can't sort out and properly handle a particular incident.

The solution to preventing these kinds of situations is very simple. If you want to start a huge semi-town invasion in an area with NPCs and where there will be lots of PvP, you need to explain what's going on and warn us and PLAN AHEAD. Spontaneous minor PvP is generally fine to supervise, but very often a DM simply won't be ready, interested, or willing to handle the full consequences of an outright war on his own without a little pre-warning. I think this is a pretty reasonable position for us to take.

Of course things happen, EFU goes in expected directions - but please do understand that if something is happening that goes beyond what the DM in question feels comfortable DM'ing for, the DM absolutely has the right to call the whole thing off and you just please must accept this.

[The Beggar]

Howland may not need / want additional posts, or have me divulge this - but as it doesn't affect server lore in any way I will.

Many have asked me over the years why I chose to leave being a DM, and in the end there were two reason that when combined created a situation / reason why I gave up the hooded cloak.

The first was that I had a very ill family member to take care of for an extended period of time. As I was in advanced studies as well, my play time was limited.

The second was what Howland has stated above. With the limited play time I had, from the minute I logged in to the minute I logged out (of both game and mIRC), over 75% of what I dealt with was easing OOC bruised egos, de-escalating OOC issues, policing for just crass / unacceptable language or behaviors we all know not to do but do anyways, and moderating PvP and the resultant issues from it. Many of you don't realize the immense burden / stress that can come from trying to not only tell a story on the server, but to keep those 40+ people in conflict who are -very- invested in their PCs and in a grand melee to fight within the rules at least accepting of the outcome, and then mitigate the fall out. It's tiring. It's frustrating. It burns DMs out - and it did me.

You guys and gals are one of the best RP communities out there, but just as in table top, the DM has to have the final word - you may not agree with it, but just accept it and move on. If you have an issues, send an appropriate non flame email discussing your point of view - I guarantee it will be reviewed and discussed (unless things have changed quite a bit). In the end it's a game - have the fun, take the hits, and things will work out.

[el groso]

So much cancer has been spread about this, me being the target, and I've been trying really hard to keep discreet and stir the pot less possible. But since it has become a thing, there is a couple of things I would like to say in response of all this, mostly yes, in my defense. The word out there is that it was all lame, cheap and tasteless, and to some extent, I agree. However, it seems that when people get offended or feel wronged, they tend to overreact and exaggerate a bit. I don't know what were other players motivations on the FDing spree, bit I know mine and my PCs. Maybe I would like to have done something differently, but what my character did was 100% IC motivated, and although the outcome of all was a handful of FDed characters, my intention was to get 2 heads. What's been said around is that he started "Randomly FDing people who were not even subdued by him". That made it sound like a random nerd who sees people downed and takes advantage to kill and loot them, My character participated the entire fight since the beginning and to the end, going all out, using all in his disposal. and trying hard to win. His 'team' was actually outnumbered, and with the exception of one of my team, out-powered as well.  He stole absolutely nothing from no one and had the intention of taking two lives. Mistakes were made and I appreciate the DM decision. I was completely willing and ready to deal with whatever ICly consequences, and I also thought the dead PCs would get raise through IC means. At the heat of the moment, I got a little upset about the DM ruling, for we all know I will face IC and OOC consequences for my behavior anyway, ICly, people are already regarding my PC as a murderer, even though the DM ruling was that no one killed no one, and OOCly I am getting the stamp of "Random Lame Nerd Grieffer ". Things are not as terrible as it seems, and I hereby apologize if I have offended anyone through my actions. I am open to talk to any DM or Player about what happened and IC motivations (for there were NO OOC ones). I have already spoken to the DM who handed the situation, and and I hold no grudge or resentment to anyone in the server. I hope all this stop getting the dimension it is getting, and may it be served as a lesson to everyone, including me, of course. I appreciate very much this server, and although I love the scripting and gaming environment, what I consider is the best about EFU is the player/DM base.

Cheers EFU, and happy new year, I love you.

[Erwin the German]

While I find it a little troublesome that the PCs who won the fight are going to inevitably suffer for this incident, I respect and sympathize with the DM's decision, and it's the one I would have made in their place. A single DM on a large server, dealing with a massive situation is not a great feeling, and it's incredibly stressful. So, kudos to the DM for their swift handling of it.

[Reuel]

In my brief experience, the DMs on this server are superhuman for what they put up with. Gamers are not the most easy type of folks to get along with, and while EfU's players (again, in my experience) are among the nicest of online communities, we all have our moments. I know I've been guilty of it in the past.

What I would say to the DMs who are feeling burned out (or getting there) is that I, and other players I know, have tried to grow as players specifically so that we don't hold you guys back. I hope you know that we are on your side, and we are ready to sacrifice our own egos where we can to keep us all playing as friends.

Thank you to everyone who is able to move past the event mentioned above and turn it into something cool, or even just ignore the negative and move on. To everyone else, please give it some time and take care with words that could be seen as hurtful. After all - DMs are Humans.

[Random_White_Guy]

To echo the Beggar's Point as a ex-DM, equally I thought I'd equally highlight one of howl's points: Planning is important to the utmost and to the extreme.

It's easy to get caught up in the whirlwind of a situation and want to "OMG RIGHT NOW STRIKE BACK" but as a DM, especially a newer one, things like that fly off the handle with such ridiculous speed and it's hard for one person to try and manipulate the world, especially with such vitriol flying around. It's easy for a DM to say "Yeah sure I'll watch this" but without a plan things just go hectic and haywire.

My own example was an EFU:A Jailbreak. A PC asked if I was around to watch them try to escape from prison which I thought would mean some open lock attempts or otherwise. What occured though was the PC had a cell key that I didn't know about, used it, and escape from prison with the aid of his friends in a small melee who had been speaking with guards upstairs about release. Inside the jailhouse a ton of subdues were thrown around, the PCs sought to flee past a number of NPCs, and other events were going on at the time as well. Because there was no planning, because there was no thought ahead, because there was no informing me what happened the result was rather terrible. Namely a 15 minute IG Pause while I ran around the server trying to handle eight things at once, before other DMs eventually had to come on and help retcon/sort things out.

Now granted not every situation can be so quickly thought out. Jail usually means a PC may be ended so people are pretty quick to act. The point stands though I hope that in cases of revenge conflict, fighting back, and more though there can be some time to let things simmer.

Plans can be made for revenge though it's hard at times for cooler heads to prevail. The most important thing to consider is that revenge need not be SWIFT AND MERCILESS but it can be artful and one of the most sweet and terrible things in EFU, if it is done right and done with a great plan. Especially if it is given a few days to simmer and gather resources and draft a plan.

Such things can lead to some of the greatest moments in EFU.

And yeah, OOC vitriol is a cancer. A terrible cancer that kills a DM's fun, PC's fun, and develops at times reputation of just wanting to not deal with certain PCs. The last hurdle in EFU is overcoming the win/lose atmosphere and understanding that while a character ends another one can be made.

[Dr Dragon]

I had no idea that DMS were humans before this post.

[Axiom]

[Updated after Paha's explanation. Thanks Paha.]

As someone directly involved in the incident, I understand the decision and appreciate the mess Paha was trying to un-solve. I do agree with Erwin that the PCs who were the attacked and then won to begin the event are going to most likely suffer IC for the decision, but "thems the breaks". Your point Howland is very much appreciated. As has been mentioned, the DMs on this server do a very very good job of trying to keep everything as consistent and well done as possible.

[Paha]

What needs to be made immensively clear here is a point, that nobody was winning in that situation. Had these deaths been allowed, it would have meant the NPC force represented by the couple NPC I am able to control on my own, would have had to responded with deadly force as well, after witnessing their own being killed. All those downed people there, most of them would have ended up dead all the same. That includes the half a dozen Caermyn and random people around just as well. I am not sure how folks forgot them, just because I OOC stopped them from dying.

In short, I saw two associations dying in total with no clear reason given to me as asked, and without slightest of warning of intentions from either of the side that there was intention of killing folks.

That won't fly guys, not near the village where there is at the moment greater presence of one group.

Speculations of who won or lost are well out of place here, and I am quite sure if I would have ended up forcing deaths on both sides, many of the individuals who talk about victory here would be the most bitter victims of that incident. You want an open warfare for FD, you can get it but in that case get us there ahead of time and let us know you plan it, so we can prepare the NPC's to respond as they should.

Or as a last resort, go to the crossroads where I don't need to get involved.

[The Old Hack]

Always be tolerant of the DM in a complicated situation, whether it involves PvP or not. Always. The DM has a lot of power but also suffers from the limitations of the DM client as well as the fact that they may easily have a dozen NPCs to juggle, possibly even on different sides.

It's easy to get overwhelmed in this sort of situation. It has happened to me more than once back in the days. Having a little patience with the DMs is a huge help for them as few things are more demoralising than having people scream at you while you are trying to fix something that you already know is a mess.

(Conversely, I also found back then that telling the players that I was in over my head and doing my best to fix things would often help calm things down. Players are human as well, appealing to their better nature proved surprisingly effective at times!)


~tOH.

[Jagged]

Aye, lads. Remember that a single DM can only control ONE npc at a time, so if an entire squad of Bannermen show up only one of them will be fighting as they're suppose to.

Sometimes that'll mean that in order to compensate this the DM in question must superbuff that one NPC in order to account for the whole.

As for this particular situation... sometimes people forget the need to escalate conflict with each individual PC before FDs are handed out. In my opinion for this incident there were people being FD'd for simply defending their Banner, and this is why a HUGE mess was created for the DM who didn't actually know what the heck was going on. All he saw was a bunch of opportunists, as IC motivations were never explained to him.

Killing off nearly all the PCs of a faction in one shot (especially one that's high on the podium in the current setting) is usually disruptive for the flow of the game and the entertainment of the player when everything isn't laid out for the DMs to rule over.

I mean, if there's no more opposition, where's the fun derived of conflict coming from?

P.S.: If a DM rules that no ones was killed, then I don't think it's right for people to be acting like there were. (Not saying anybody is doing this, but it's something I try to keep in mind for myself)

[wcsherry]

Help avoid DM burnout. Some brief reminders that make this place better for all of us:

* As a player your goal here should be to tell stories. Part of telling stories includes conflict. Conflicts have winners and losers. A story is more interesting when this conflict is well thought out.

* Playing the role of the loser in PvP may bruise your ego, but pause here for a moment. Let's consider an example from contemporary literature and the impact it had on a story arc. Ned Stark loses his head to a petulant little brat in AGOT. He dies, yet the story as a whole becomes amazing as a result. Do not think of a loss in PvP in terms of victory or failure, but as an opportunity to adapt your story in a memorable fashion, or leave your mark on the server.

* Again -- you are here to tell a story, not amass 1000 haste potions and subdue every creature with a name above its head. Levels and loot do not reflect impact on the game world.

[Ebok]

I watched that spiral out of control with a look of sheer amazement. having been there from the beginning and watching everything from a semi neutral point of view.

I cannot see how this could have been handled in any other way.

[Vlaid]

It's so easy for people to forget that DM's are not professionals, just gamers like the rest of us (though usually a bit more mature and level headed than your average player). I've been guilty of forgetting this on occasion

[gab1]

Make evil app only and give all players 30 second pause items to be used liberally. I was in no way involved with this conflict. I think it should be cool for PC's to ask for a pause but i'd be even more supportive of an OOC pause item.