Goblins and Kobolds aplenty

[Random_White_Guy]

Once upon a time these races didn't require applications.

Frankly I always enjoyed the idea of monstrous  little evil minions, wild feral monsters roaming the lands, etc. One of my favorite PCs I have ever played was a Goblin so I was curious:  The application process for these two races is woefully simple and often times pass but of late they have been kind of sparce. It just feels kind of weird to me that WEREWOLVES, WERERATS, etc are more prevalent and prominent than some of the most stereotypically copiously copulating creatures of D&D.

If the DMs re-implemented this process like they did the stargazers, without apps being required, anyone actually play these little bundles of evil wonder and splendor?

I know there have been some but it's one of those things that more is always better!

[Divine Intervention]

Whilst this kind of thing is always open to people playing "bad" monsters who do not represent the race properly.  I think that making these creatures non-application is probably a good thing.  I do not think it is so much the difficulty of an app (admittedly very easy for such a race) that puts people off so much as the potentially long waiting times if processing is slow in which they cannot play.  Furthermore, as they are not particularly strong and KOS they often have short life spans which can mean a few days waiting to play only to wipe on the first day, rather discouraging.

So long as players can respect the rules around monster races and not simply wander around town trying to associate with humans etc I think we'd see somewhat more of these creatures.

I suspect that the hassle of maintaining a high standard of RP from non-application monsters may outweigh the potential benefits but that's just my two cents.

[Vlaid]

If I recall correctly, the reason for the application requirement being put back in place for goblins/kobolds wasn't because of improperly played monsters.

It was because people were making goblins/kobolds in droves as sort of an arena-sport concept and an excuse to throw caution to the wind on a throw-away PC.

I still recall the pile of 20 some dead PC's in the sewers of old EFU that resulted from the removal of applications for them. That might have had something to do with it.

At least with application requirements the investment is at least equivalent to the amount of work they might put into any other PC (as you say, it's quite an easy app to get approved).

[Pentaxius]

I'd love to see more of those pesky little monsters in game !

[Gotham]

It's a pretty easy app to pass, the only delay is in giving DM';s time to look at it

[HerDarkMajesties]

Whilst the singular goblin or kobold outcast might work well without any overarching goals or plots, I'd always prefer to see groups of kobold and goblin PC's have something to work towards beyond instigating and encouraging PvPfests. The best way to ensure that is by having an application system. Without that, it could very easily end up becoming just a path for OOC cliques to create monstrous bands and sharpen their PvP skills with a race that's guaranteed to give them plentiful opportunities and reasons to do so.

[Gotham]

I dunno if i'm afraid of roaming gangs of powergamer goblins. Seems like a shit race to choose for that.

[Paha]

I personally liked these beings as a free to make, however... As mentioned on previous posts, even as a player I saw way too many of these made as a throw-away characters. In sense of monsters, that is not a bad thing. Goblins die and breed like rabbits, but the truth is that they are not normal monsters when build up by a player. They are stronger and more meaningful, and very much more deadly.

It is not acceptable to have completely fearless and meaningless monsters, whom have nothing to lose and can freely go at people without concern for their own well being, just because they are monsters that have somewhat a justification.

However, I am sure we'll end up discussing and considering this between ourselves, and we'll see. No promises.

[Gippy]

It worked for EFU, where desperation made strange bedfellows. It does not work with EFU:M where desperation makes people cling tighter to values and retain their civilization as best they can.

[Howlando]

I dunno if i'm afraid of roaming gangs of powergamer goblins. Seems like a shit race to choose for that.

You should be. We have had some immensely powerful goblins.

Anyway -

OK, it might take a player 5 minutes to dash off a quick app and then wait a day for it to be approved. But I know from experience that it requires much more time from DMs to manage when people stroll into town with their goblin or get involved in some dodgy pvp situation or are outraged over something or another.

[Calixto]

Slightly off-topic, I would love to be able to apply for non-evil monsters. After all, the monster npcs who die every day by the dozens represent the evil norm of their respective race and it would be nice if players could have the opportunity to play the tiny non-evil exception which, I guess, exists.

[Pigadig]

People do play good monster PCs.

They just tend to die faster from their habit of hanging around in town.

[Cerberus]

Goblins die and breed like rabbits, but the truth is that they are not normal monsters when build up by a player. They are stronger and more meaningful, and very much more deadly.

You should be. We have had some immensely powerful goblins.

This is why I dislike PC Goblins and Kobolds and feel they should be app only, (yes, I have played them). IMO, they are suppose to be weak monsters. And those that are not weak, would not be hanging around with those that are not of their respective race without a VERY good reason. They would be kings, leaders, shaman and whatnot of their race. They would make every attempt to overthrow other leaders of their race to become the new leader. What they would not be, is be smart enough to become powerful, and stupid enough to get themselves killed.

Perhaps if they were made a non-app race then their level cap should be set way low (say 6th) and have to app for 7th and up levels. Or something on that line.

[The Man In The Mist]

Simply enforce the same rules that are set on Stargazer PCs, have them be able to be retired at any moment and take Cerb's suggestion and enforce a level limit.

[Mathamune]

I would not like an introduction of the creation of level limits. One thing might lead to another and then a whole bunch of hoopla gets thrown about. The soft cap should be suitable and if goblins are as KOS as they are said, then the ones who do survive and prosper deserve to be a top predator and actually strike fear.

From my perspective, goblins aren't necessarily weak creatures (~halfling status, as represented), just incredibly cowardly and unorganized. Kobolds are just generally weak, though, having a few niches that they can relatively excel at, the rest kind of just flopping.