Remove all Faction Quest Giver NPCs

[The Man In The Mist]

I used them as examples, Pandip. There are other quests that would be 100% for Ordersmen to do if they weren't given by a Stargazer, for example.

The point remains, I believe all quests should be completely legitimate for any faction to do or group.

Chances are it won't happen, I understood that, but the tone some people took was inappropriate, and unproductive, to the discussion.

[Pandip]

I guess I'm just missing a  satisfyingly concrete reasoning for this to happen, especially considering the consequences for making the changes. Removing the faction-exclusivity of certain quests ruins a lot of the lore involved with them. What is Gnolls without the fact that it is a burial ground for the Order and therefore important to purge? What is the Bogs Defense quest without it being a necessary bulwark for the gazers? So on and so forth.

[Pool]

I've never seen this as a problem. If I'm doing a quest on a character that may conflict with the stand-point of the quest-giver, I just RP it as something entirely different. Order hating Wizard? I didn't talk to a Templar to find out about burial grounds plagued by gnolls, I found it by myself. The money I got from the reward? Out of the Gnoll's raid supply chests.

Order owes me no favors, I don't owe them any favors. Simplicity itself.

Imagination goes quite a long way. :U

[sylvyrdragon]

To discourage players from joining factions in favor of quests is definitely not something I imagine is wanted. We want players in DM factions/groups/etc. because they make the world feel more alive, active, and ultimately add to the experience.

Another way to deal with this may be to just kill said NPCs [because you guys are opposed, right?] and somewhat force the DM's hand in making a new one.

What is said was in tongue and cheek.

 It was said:  

....just because your character is opposing certain factions it limits access to some of the quests that could be the players favorite part of EfU.

If this is your favorite part of efu, then don't join a faction that is opposed to it.  Efu is about much much more than the quests.  I'm not saying that it's wrong to be your favorite part.. just that if it is, don't join the faction.

[Big Orc Man]

Doing a quest from a Conclavist NPC when you aren't affiliated with them is no problem.  After all, they're paying.

Doing a quest from a Conclavist NPC when your character is vehemently opposed to and at active war with the Conclave, on the other hand, is pretty shifty.

[The Man In The Mist]

Doing a quest from a Conclavist NPC when you aren't affiliated with them is no problem.  After all, they're paying.

Doing a quest from a Conclavist NPC when your character is vehemently opposed to and at active war with the Conclave, on the other hand, is pretty shifty.

Precisely. I just feel quests should be faction neutral so all may partake in them.

[Big Orc Man]

I think your suggestion has merit in some of the circumstances, but not others.

Gnolls, for example, is a quest that has many competing quests you could perform instead.

Kant's, on the other hand, really doesn't have a lot of alternative at high levels, so your point is very well taken there.

[Softie]

I would love to do the tower of mercy, sadly, my PC hates the Conclave and has mixed it up with them more than once.

[Valo56]

Kant's in particular is a quest I feel needs to have either two methods of taking the same quest (perhaps Conclave paying while someone else giving random loot as a reward). After taking the quest twice my wizard was better supplied than any other character of mine has ever been. Admittedly I generally don't have much in the way of supplies, but it does seem a bit unfair that some can't take it.

I would love to do the tower of mercy, sadly, my PC hates the Conclave and has mixed it up with them more than once.

Tower of Mercy is a neutral quest, its quest-giver is simply an archaeologist, not the Caliphar in the Mythallar Chamber.

[The Old Hack]

I think your suggestion has merit in some of the circumstances, but not others.

Gnolls, for example, is a quest that has many competing quests you could perform instead.

Kant's, on the other hand, really doesn't have a lot of alternative at high levels, so your point is very well taken there.

One thing in particular: Kant's has some of the best wizard loot of all the scripted quests yet 'renegades' are more or less definitionally unable to do it. I am not complaining about this, I merely make note of it -- if it is the intent that mages that do not align themselves with the Conclave should not have access to this loot, it is fine.

[Calixto]

Another way to deal with this may be to just kill said NPCs [because you guys are opposed, right?] and somewhat force the DM's hand in making a new one.

It's doubtful that will "force the DM's hand" since you, well, need a dm to kill npcs :D

[HungeringShadows]

if it is the intent that mages that do not align themselves with the Conclave should not have access to this loot, it is fine.

This was originally the purpose of the quest. It was created back when the conclave had very few allies an there were lots of dangerous off limit locations and npc's who they couldn't work with (order/wyrm watchers.) Things have settled down quite a bit since then. It's worth noting however that given the story of the quest, a renegade most certainly wouldn't want to help with it.

[Big Orc Man]

I also think, incidentally, that I'm not that opposed to the allies of the Conclave ending up somehow with a bit more in the way of wizard supplies.

That is the Conclave's area of focus, after all.

[The Old Hack]

This was originally the purpose of the quest. It was created back when the conclave had very few allies an there were lots of dangerous off limit locations and npc's who they couldn't work with (order/wyrm watchers.)

I thought it was a bit older than that? I mean, not necessarily older than the situation that you postulate -- an isolated Conclave -- but that it actually appeared the first time a few months before the end of EfU: A. I seem to remember doing it together with Qadima (Squidima) once on Karrin Connell.

Things have settled down quite a bit since then. It's worth noting however that given the story of the quest, a renegade most certainly wouldn't want to help with it.

Well, yes and no. As a matter of principle most would likely refuse, including my two most recent mages. But given that the scenario holds an actual Conclavist gone mad with power, the more mercenary or ruthless might figure that payback's a bitch, let's go grab his loot. But in general I agree.

I also think, incidentally, that I'm not that opposed to the allies of the Conclave ending up somehow with a bit more in the way of wizard supplies.

That is the Conclave's area of focus, after all.

Fair enough. That leaves us only with the problem of relatively few high level quests, which might be an issue for a different thread. *scratches head*

[HungeringShadows]

Fair enough. That leaves us only with the problem of relatively few high level quests, which might be an issue for a different thread. *scratches head*

Here is a helpful list for you. For level 10 characters Coral Cove, Orcs Part II (level cap is higher than orcs part 1, but with roleplay you can obtain the map) Zatoru's Peak, Mist Ogres, Sinister Evil, Lizardfolk and Bog Invasion (may be level9 max I forget)

All of those quests are reasonably long, especially with roleplay just doing two of those is a whole evening.

For level 9 we have Brood Hive, Purple Crystal, Orcs Part 1, Bog Witch Coven (Trolls)

I make that seven quests with a max of level ten and then another four with a max level of nine. Plenty in my book for high level players.

Edit: Sorry if this is poorly formatted I'm rather tired.