Horses

[lovethesuit]

I know that Howland said horses are being evaluated, but I wanted to start a topic to open discussion on the player side. Primarily, let's review the pros and cons, and some possible concepts that would work well with allowing mounts in EfU!

Personally, I'm all in favour of it, but given the situation, it stands to reason that they should be rare. Perhaps akin to glowing staves, once carried by only the most favoured of Spellguardies. Well, you understand what I mean, right?

[Meldread]

I got teleported to the Ziggurat riding my pony.

Okay, in all seriousness, it really depends.  How accessible is EfU:  A from the mainland?  If we can (in theory) travel back and forth, then there is really no IC reason for them not to exist.

I'm all in favor for what makes sense IC.

Even though I hate the fact that Paladins can summon horses, for the stated reason... it doesn't make sense IC. (The same is true for animal companions, and familiars - although since Wizards get them, makes a bit more sense.)

[Snoteye]

... there is really no IC reason for them not to exist.

Correct. The reason we're evaluating, I believe, is because of OOC reasons.

My own stance (that is, not that of the DM team) is this:

The moment we reach a point where travel by mount significantly pays off, I believe we've made a grave mistake in terms of module design. NWN was designed to handle long distance travelling in transitions. We have all the tools available to properly penalize people for long treks if we want to (fatigue, starvation, etc.) but we don't need to waste time actually making the trip. More importantly, we shouldn't be filling up our module with areas that are essentially only there to ride through. Imagine ten consecutive Low Way areas -- it really isn't fun (if you disagree, ask yourself how fun travelling was in Morrowind and Oblivion).

To this I see two alternatives. One is to offer mounts either on application basis or as special rewards. The pessimist inside of me (as if there's anything else to me) tells me this will lead to a lot of mount requests, either directly or indirectly, which I don't care for. In addition to that, when mounts are not a necessity (see point 1 above), using a mount after being awarded one would serve only to rub it in other players' faces for no good reason. Yes, mounted combat provides a few bonuses, but they are entirely negligible as has been proven by the NWN community over the past six years.

The other alternative is to provide mounts on an equal basis (i.e. for coin, as an expensive scripted quest reward, etc.). Eventually, this will just lead to everyone having mounts, which I don't much care for either.

Also, paladins can't summon mounts. We disabled that. And if we didn't, it's a bug that should be reported.

Finally, note that I'm saying mounts instead of horses. I'm all for horses -- they're well made and they fit our new environment just fine. It's mounts I don't like, and even then only as far as personal mounts go. I would not be averse to jousting tournaments, for instance.

[Letsplayforfun]

Just a question: can there be other mounts than horses? (giant spiders, rothes, etc?).

[Snoteye]

Unfortunately, that is not a possibility.

[Meldread]

Snoteye-

I see what you're saying and agree.

I am just wondering how you square it away ICly?

I think, if it's possible the best way to handle it is to let people ride them, but don't let the horses actually run.  So basically you get no benefit outside of cosmetics and RP.  After all, you really aren't going to be running around full speed on your horse everywhere you go - you'd run it into the ground and kill it.

Maybe, if you wanted to connect some benefit to having them, allow the horse to give you the ability to use expedient retreat once per day. :p

But, my only thoughts / opinions on the matter are 100% exclusively ICly related.

And if I had to pick, I'd rather ditch horses than have pointless empty areas designed simply for riding them.

[lovethesuit]

What I was hoping to encourage is some discussion on how horses could be used effectively. What Snoteye said is a lot of what I had in mind too, only from different sides of the fence. I think that horses as special prizes for exceptional roleplay would not necessarily rub it in the face of other players, but perhaps act as a symbol of status to other characters. The jousting idea is something I really like and could easily be turned into a scripted thing, I wager.

I would like to ask, also, if horses could be scripted differently. Benefits or penalties applied or removed, based on different types of horse. Perhaps imposing a limit to what you can carry while riding a horse, or adding a Scare function to horses when faced with monsters of a certain difficulty.

What I imagine when I think of horses in the server is not people standing around town, two or three of them on a horse, talking about going out on a scripted quest. I'm talking about a group of knights patrolling the city, or a cavalry-based NPC group, or road bandits, or an excuse to take Weapon Master in a whole new direction. Things like this, that don't require that we put a title on what Mounts are in EfU:A, but that also don't require a total exclusion of them either.

So come on, any ideas on how you'd use a horse in EfU?

[RIPnogarD]

One rank in ride and mounted combat would be two good prerequisites for even being considered for having a mount. After all if you have no skill in ride you pretty much cant really ride except to sit on the beast. And if you do not have mounted combat I believe you actually loose out when it comes to fighting.

[Snoteye]

I am just wondering how you square it away ICly?

I don't, really. Even having them be only wild horses would eventually inspire somebody to try and tame them. I suppose they could just be made work horses, but that's honestly the best explanation I can think of.

I would like to ask, also, if horses could be scripted differently. Benefits or penalties applied or removed, based on different types of horse. Perhaps imposing a limit to what you can carry while riding a horse, or adding a Scare function to horses when faced with monsters of a certain difficulty.

We have some control, but I'm not sure precisely how much.

What I imagine when I think of horses in the server is not people standing around town, two or three of them on a horse, talking about going out on a scripted quest.

And I can't not fear that is exactly what will happen, and with mounts, having them on trial basis won't really work (or at least, be very, very silly). But by all means, keep discussion going.

[Hammerfist0]

I recommend a trial basis, It may seem silly, but just have "All Horses on the island have died of a dread sickness" if it doesn't work out. I think most of us are pretty flexible.

[Daemonic Daz]

*Busts out his gun*

HORSE HUNTING SEASON IS OFFICALLY OPEN!

[dragonfire9000]

Heck yes!

[Mort]

There wont be any horses. Horses generate IMMENSE amounts of lag. I dont know who coded them in bioware or whatever, but their skin is horrible. There is a 2-3 second skip whenever an Horse loads on my screen and I can expect it will be much WORST for older computers.

So, No horses.

[Snoteye]

They didn't. DLA did. BioWare just implemented them (and fixed scripts and added animations).

[Efu_Executioner]

I am very against horses, As I have seen them used on PvP arena servers, one time 4 of the 20 players online were using horses, this created terrible lag which in turn ruined the game for many. This is the way I'd see horses.

Pros:

Get to look awesome for absolutely no reason while doing absolutely nothing

Cons:

Lag the majority of the server, which in turn disrupts the enjoyment of others.