Have fun damnit!

[Howlando]

So after a very long long absence from EFU, I've (kind of) returned and have been interested to see how the server is doing. Many things are great. But I see a lot of things we need to improve, and hopefully we'll be working on that, but one thing I do want to mention is:

This apparent playstyle of the collective playerbase cringing away from the harder/more interesting quests in order to dully spam the well-worn road of the less dangerous quests has got to stop.

Sometimes I get the sense that there are players who have practically never ventured out to explore the whole Island, seen some of the crazy hidden stuff scattered around, or even attempted some of our big scary quests...

No DM wants to spice and reward granary over and over again.

Look, if our content is genuinely too difficult, then we should fix it - but I am not so sure that is the biggest problem.

We do want to have some easy things for players to do, things that are quick and close to town and don't require lots of time.

But going out and adventuring should feel fresh and dangerous, and repeating the same quests repeatedly seems like a quick way to just get bored.

If you want to post suggestions or ideas about how to improve this, or explain your own OOC attitude about these sorts of things, then I welcome your input. And in the meantime, I'm going to spend some time going through our systems to dramatically tweak some quest rewards.

[TheBarmaid]

Dying is harsh, mang. And people work hard for their levels. Risking that takes some convincing, unless your super prepared.

And some DM's do like their hard-spice. Which a segment of the server adores. Others not so much - but that's understandable, people have different tastes. But essentially I think it's the fear of death.

[Pool]

Pretty much what Barmaid said.

[TheBarmaid]

also, I am having fun, and my character doesn't even adventure and avoids conflict :~

[Pigadig]

Well EFU does have a reputation (and to an extent, reality) of DM quests ranging from ball bustingly hard with cool rewards all the way through to ball bustingly hard with no rewards.

Added to that that there's more than a few quests out in the wider server that either a) require specific groups of competent and forewarned players or b) aren't worth it in a risk/reward sense, it isn't that surprising that people stick to what they know.

That being said however I've certainly learnt something from playing Walt - not dying on EFU is boring as fuck. Go out there and die people, you'll feel bad but not as bad as you will otherwise.

[TheBarmaid]

Fun for me comes from interacting and cooperating with other PC's to accomplish goals that can affect the fantasy lives of the server pc's and npc's. I don't generally need to range far for that

[Aethereal]

Added to that that there's more than a few quests out in the wider server that [...] b) aren't worth it in a risk/reward sense, it isn't that surprising that people stick to what they know.

I'm wondering which ones you're thinking of.

From my own observations though, I think there's a lack of PCs in-game who are leading expeditions and have a reputation to not backstab, leave people stranded etc.

It might just be me, but when PCs ask to explore some ill-defined area, it may just be an excuse for murder in a disturbingly senseless way, so I'm wary about such things as a player as well.

[TwilightCircus]

Personally, it has to do with the very short time I've been having to play. So I generally don't have the time to go out, explore, do a hard quest which takes a good time (and that's good!) and then come back.

Asside from that, I have noticed that it gets much easier when your character has assembled a group of characters he trusts and gets along with. It may well be that there's a bit of an individualist streak recently, which makes it very hard to be able to go out and explore when it is all quite dangerous.

[el groso]

I understand what Howl means... And I felt the same thing just recently. That made me try stuff like leading folks to the Lizards quest in the Morass, take expeditions to sweep random withered places, looking for bounties (although the possibility of finding any is low) and we even took a group to the Trolls quest in the Bogs, one I, having over 3 years of EFU, had never done before, didn't even know how to get there. The other day, I also decided to try GHULA! And of course we lost. Well, it was my first time, and I lost level 8 probably the fourth or fifth time on the same character.
However, in all these examples, at least two PCs fugued in each. Two of them causing players to quit their characters, one of them killed in a DM spice with no reward. I did feel bad every single time anyone fugued when they were with me. Results of all these: Was it worth it? Mechanically: definitely not. Since I usually don't care if the group is optimal, I tend to get drained in supplies that are important simply to keep my character alive. And for the players who fugued/lost their characters, it was definitely not worth it. RP/challange/fun wise: Yes, at least for me. But I understand not everyone that was with me had the same fun. There were people really struggling just to remain alive and at least take a few XP points home, and hoping the withering didn't get out of hand.

So, my suggestion is just... To players: Go try something new! It's hard sometimes... Sometimes it's a gamble...  It's not mechanically worthwhile sometimes... But it can also be an experience to grow as a player, or just have a little extra fun. And to DMs... At least consider a bit more when spicing quest or events... Be a bit more considerate to the value of time people spend playing here, when you decide to spice it up and bring more fun to the player base, try not to actually spoil their fun, some people work hard just to have a few hours of free time to enjoy the server.

[The Old Hack]

Umm, three comments here. No criticism at all is intended, this is just how I feel.

One, I am kind of getting a mixed message here. Recently I made a post about how a particular exploration area was very hard, and the consensus was that it was fine and I should be more careful and better prepared. So, I take the lesson from this that I need level, supplies, buffs and skilled company, which all combine to make me more leery of 'just exploring' -- I really hate finally getting level 7 or 8 and then, BAM, lose a whole week's worth of careful work to a single freak critical or bad decision, either my own or that of a groupmate. And now I get told that I am being too careful? Okay, maybe I am. *sighs and ties on white cloth strip with red sun on forehead* Fuel up my Zero, make sure all the bombs are secure, off I go.

Two, I defy anyone to name a more permanently lethal way to get involved in the server than entering player politics. I have lost more characters to that than anything else, usually fairly successful ones as well. And not having learned my lesson, I am doing that again with my new character. Really, the Sunken Enclave is a cakewalk compared to pissing off the Floating Enclave. I also feel that I that way contribute to make the server a little more interesting, though I may be fooling myself. >.>

Three, I am having fun. Or I would not be here.

That's all.

~tOH.

[granny]

well... losing levels makes you do that.
my character is stuck at some level range that make it impossible for me to adventure into other quests. added to it there is the difficulty of making her to join into groups to explore. when I have to, I usually must explore alone. what means probably losing another level.

so, when I'm able to, I will try and go for the unusual. but since my last delevelings, I'm not going... and I'm trying to stick where it is safe, trying to interact more and have some share of people's RP time more than questing.

alas, it seems that there is a curse: everytime I get to next lvl, something bad happens and I get killed. I'm now a week on the same low lvl, just RPing and being around with folks. and I'm almost pretty sure that once I advance, something nasty will happen, dragging me down again. so, forget about hard questing for me.

to have a group on which to trust is something that I envy... and the currently playerbase of the Enclave usually isn't available to quest with me... I wonder why.

[Canzah]

I'll wander down the same road as everyone else to begin with. The common understanding is that you need a good and reliable group to be optimal for these sort of quests. Which is fine, and I am sure we all get that.

There are a few players that will go out of their way to bring groups of more loosely affiliated characters out to the more dangerous/interesting quest however, simply for the chance to share the sights. What may be an issue in these cases, is that these sorts of groups operate on different schedules and many of the quests require a lot of time spent traveling just in order to reach them. This in turn leaves people short on time or even forced to log out mid-quest once the real fun is supposed to begin.

I would advise rewarding players that make these things happen with a means of reaching remote areas more easily, to encourage more spur of the moment happenings. Teleport for example works great for high level wizards, but something of equal use for this purpose is sorely needed for the other classes. Make it exclusive mistpaths, special sailing or a score of giant eagles. The details I leave up to someone else.

[johanmaxon]

This is just what I've gotten a feeling of lately, perhaps true or not. It is that the playerbase have gotten alot more split up in factions. Factions with rivalry or dislike between them.

For the hard quests in EFU, if you atleast want to go any bit plus on doing it supply wise, you'll need a wizard of some sort. I can't though recall when I last saw a decent level wizard for these high quests, that wasn't in or atleast somehow bound to the Conclave. And as it is now, may people got a horn in the side to the Conclave. This sure has happened before, but just for me it feels like if it is to a larger extent groups that does not work well together, Caermyn/Aberdenn, Order/Conclave, Muster people think as worth for nothing so they stick together...

This causes the good ol' sending for orcs or ToM often not being effective, and then not even attempted. People high enough level not being out on some trip with their own faction just sitting around in town is simply not often available.

The really dangerous quests such as the Sunken Enclave, requires a well prepared team that works well together. Not the rag-tag sending group. I don't really see these well-bound groups as much on the server anymore, not as I remember them during the Dominion days when I and people did these atleast quite often.

[IxTheSpeedy]

Hmmm, I had to think about this for a bit.  I have played a bunch of exploring PCs over the last few years and have found that this aspect of the server is one of the most rewarding.  I have however almost stopped questing.  I am not 100% sure why but I think it is due to the following:

When I quest with a group that I trust, usually that's team nature in my case, I really enjoy it because people are supportive / share supplies / heal each other, etc.  The way any successful group acts and the way that any group that is going to tackle harder quests must act.  When I quest with anybody else, I find that people are much less supportive and therefore less effective as a group which increases the chance of failure dramatically.  Now this may be because I'm not all that great at builds and maybe my characters aren't often all that self sufficient but it is definitely the case.  I can think of a few times over the last few years that this has really come into focus and the group rocked for a month or so, and all was good, outside of that, it's not all the pleasant to quest with strangers.  

As was mentioned in previous posts, the server right now is quite polarized and perhaps that is because it seems to me that most of the playerbase is a member of a faction.  Groups really hate each other IC'ly.  There is no possible way my current PC would quest with a Conclavist or an Ordersman for example.  Contrast this to the way things were a few years ago, I distinctly remember quest trains in the Underdark working together much more and rocking quests.  What's the difference?  I'm not sure.  I'd be happy to brainstorm with someone about it if they wanted.  

Side Note:
One other reason that I almost never quest is that there are plenty of evil enemy undead wandering around the server at all times that pose a challenge and can bring good RP for smaller groups that want to go out and mix it up a bit.  It's fun and it makes great IC sense.

[CakePlease]

Perhaps the player base could try designing a few more quests again, it would be nice to see some new content and the expect the DM team is very busy so something like that could be cool, give players more of an incentive to go out and explore to find them. I think on efu:m i have done every quest in the module with the exception of class specific quests and I think for the majority of higher end content you need to use your supplies competantly and have a healthy ammount and go with people that you have quested with before and work well together.

Some of the higher end content could do with a few tweaks loot wise to make things more balanced. It is very easy though to repeat the same few quests over and over. I find i do this a lot when my withering points get high and i don't want to stray to far from the Mists etc.